Discussion:
Alaska Crab Fishing
(too old to reply)
jerkyboy
2006-03-27 02:39:22 UTC
Permalink
I am curious. Women and feminists claim that what keeps them out of
high paying jobs is men setting up roadblacks and holding them back.

But Alaskan Crab Fisherman are just that. ALL men, but it seems women
do not want anything to do with this job or career. Why? Well, it is
considered one of the hardest and most dangerous jobs there is. It is
very high paying. Yet why are not women and feminists flocking to it?
Like other jobs men do, it is dangerous. And women want nothing to do
with danger. The feminists just want the easy safe jobs. And any
women that DO enter what would be considered a mans job want it
changed to suit them, as in made safer, easier, etc. And yet they
still want the same rate of pay.

There is NOTHING holding women or feminist back from buying a crab
boat and making up an all female crew and going out on the bering sea
and proving once and for all that "Women can do everything men do plus
gestate".

So gals....lets see you put your money where your mouth is. Go for
it. There is nothing stopping you. And there are enough wealthy
feminists and women who should be more than willing to bankroll such a
object lesson to us horrible men. Come on gals. Instead of whining
about the "glass ceiling" and how you are held back and kept out of
"men only" jobs, prove it? Prove you can do it.
s***@yahoo.com
2006-03-27 05:17:17 UTC
Permalink
I got news for you scooter, 90% the men I've met couldn't do it either.
Never met a computer geek that could. I worked Summers on an off-shore
oil platform to augment my GI Bill for college.
Never met many men who could do that either.

Sam
Post by jerkyboy
I am curious. Women and feminists claim that what keeps them out of
high paying jobs is men setting up roadblacks and holding them back.
But Alaskan Crab Fisherman are just that. ALL men, but it seems women
do not want anything to do with this job or career. Why? Well, it is
considered one of the hardest and most dangerous jobs there is. It is
very high paying. Yet why are not women and feminists flocking to it?
Like other jobs men do, it is dangerous. And women want nothing to do
with danger. The feminists just want the easy safe jobs. And any
women that DO enter what would be considered a mans job want it
changed to suit them, as in made safer, easier, etc. And yet they
still want the same rate of pay.
There is NOTHING holding women or feminist back from buying a crab
boat and making up an all female crew and going out on the bering sea
and proving once and for all that "Women can do everything men do plus
gestate".
So gals....lets see you put your money where your mouth is. Go for
it. There is nothing stopping you. And there are enough wealthy
feminists and women who should be more than willing to bankroll such a
object lesson to us horrible men. Come on gals. Instead of whining
about the "glass ceiling" and how you are held back and kept out of
"men only" jobs, prove it? Prove you can do it.
jerkyboy
2006-03-27 09:36:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@yahoo.com
I got news for you scooter, 90% the men I've met couldn't do it either.
Never met a computer geek that could. I worked Summers on an off-shore
oil platform to augment my GI Bill for college.
Never met many men who could do that either.
Never tried to claim all men could do it either. Alot of men couldnt,
you are right, but hardly the 90 percent you claim. Now, 90 percent
wouldnt want to do it, yes, because it takes a special kind of guts to
do the job. I didnt go on an Alaskan Crab boat, but I did work a Gulf
coast shrimper and carb boat. Not as challenging as the alaskan boat
but hardly walk in the park either. I also worked my share out on the
rigs and on several oil charting boats. None of them were easy but
the money was good at the time.

Oh, and I was/am one of those computer "geeks". I worked those jobs
in the summers and off time from school studying to be a "geek", so to
speak. And if you never met many men who couldnt work the rigs,
your circle of acquaintances must of been pretty small or limited.

So my point still stands. If women claim to be held back, then why
are not they out there in all those dangerous, deadly, high paying
jobs in eequal numbers with the guys. They wouldnt be stopped. They
have to search the world for the guys to work them. Just about all
you have to do is apply. Same with the jobs working at the crab
processing plants up in Alaska. But the hours are long and hard there
as well. And messy, smelly as well as moderately dangerous. And you
would make 25 bucks an hour as well as getting your housing. Yet few
women, if any, work those plants. Men again. Nothing stopping the
gals applying and getting the jobs, for sure. Jobs go unfilled even
at 25 bucks an hour. So where are all these amazon feminists.

Again, we know where they are. Whining and moaning about the safe
corporate executive jobs that they just cant seem to be given, even
though they whine day and night.

So again I say, lets go gals. Get together with those feminist deep
pockets and form your own fishing fleet and make the big bucks. Out
of all the women in the US and Canada, surely there are enough women
worthy of such a job. Prove that its not just guy's who can do it.
Back up your claims rather than just whine about it.

JB
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Sam
Post by jerkyboy
I am curious. Women and feminists claim that what keeps them out of
high paying jobs is men setting up roadblacks and holding them back.
But Alaskan Crab Fisherman are just that. ALL men, but it seems women
do not want anything to do with this job or career. Why? Well, it is
considered one of the hardest and most dangerous jobs there is. It is
very high paying. Yet why are not women and feminists flocking to it?
Like other jobs men do, it is dangerous. And women want nothing to do
with danger. The feminists just want the easy safe jobs. And any
women that DO enter what would be considered a mans job want it
changed to suit them, as in made safer, easier, etc. And yet they
still want the same rate of pay.
There is NOTHING holding women or feminist back from buying a crab
boat and making up an all female crew and going out on the bering sea
and proving once and for all that "Women can do everything men do plus
gestate".
So gals....lets see you put your money where your mouth is. Go for
it. There is nothing stopping you. And there are enough wealthy
feminists and women who should be more than willing to bankroll such a
object lesson to us horrible men. Come on gals. Instead of whining
about the "glass ceiling" and how you are held back and kept out of
"men only" jobs, prove it? Prove you can do it.
s***@yahoo.com
2006-03-27 18:46:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by jerkyboy
Never tried to claim all men could do it either. Alot of men couldnt,
you are right, but hardly the 90 percent you claim. Now, 90 percent
wouldnt want to do it, yes, because it takes a special kind of guts to
do the job. I didnt go on an Alaskan Crab boat, but I did work a Gulf
coast shrimper and carb boat. Not as challenging as the alaskan boat
but hardly walk in the park either. I also worked my share out on the
rigs and on several oil charting boats. None of them were easy but
the money was good at the time.
So the pay-off is the money.
This is a commonly repeated taunt aimed at women on soc.men and I think
it is bullshit.
I was an infantryman for 3 years, 1965 - 1968 and I also know that not
many men could do that either.
But that doesn't stop the bitter brigade from taunting women with that
either. I venture that none of those bozos served in combat either.
It's just another stupid taunt that makes all of us look bad.
Post by jerkyboy
Oh, and I was/am one of those computer "geeks". I worked those jobs
in the summers and off time from school studying to be a "geek", so to
speak. And if you never met many men who couldnt work the rigs,
your circle of acquaintances must of been pretty small or limited.
Not many of the "gameboy" generation, that's assured. Most of my close
friends can and have worked those kinds of jobs, but they aren't on
soc.men taunting women.
Post by jerkyboy
So my point still stands. If women claim to be held back, then why
are not they out there in all those dangerous, deadly, high paying
jobs in eequal numbers with the guys. They wouldnt be stopped. They
have to search the world for the guys to work them. Just about all
you have to do is apply. Same with the jobs working at the crab
processing plants up in Alaska. But the hours are long and hard there
as well. And messy, smelly as well as moderately dangerous. And you
would make 25 bucks an hour as well as getting your housing. Yet few
women, if any, work those plants. Men again. Nothing stopping the
gals applying and getting the jobs, for sure. Jobs go unfilled even
at 25 bucks an hour. So where are all these amazon feminists.
I don't understand your point at all or what you're trying to prove. Do
you just dislike women? Nobody forced me to work on oil platforms or as
metal worker, no one forced me to join the Army, I volunteered, so what
point are you trying to make?
Do you want to force people to work jobs that they don't want to do?
I chose to work outside.
Post by jerkyboy
Again, we know where they are. Whining and moaning about the safe
corporate executive jobs that they just cant seem to be given, even
though they whine day and night.
Most of the whining I see in this newsgroup is from men who simply do
not like women and have a personal ax to grind..
Post by jerkyboy
So again I say, lets go gals. Get together with those feminist deep
pockets and form your own fishing fleet and make the big bucks. Out
of all the women in the US and Canada, surely there are enough women
worthy of such a job. Prove that its not just guy's who can do it.
Back up your claims rather than just whine about it.
I simply don't see the point in a challenge like that. What point are
you trying to make?

Sam
Andre Lieven
2006-03-27 19:24:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by jerkyboy
Never tried to claim all men could do it either. Alot of men couldnt,
you are right, but hardly the 90 percent you claim. Now, 90 percent
wouldnt want to do it, yes, because it takes a special kind of guts to
do the job. I didnt go on an Alaskan Crab boat, but I did work a Gulf
coast shrimper and carb boat. Not as challenging as the alaskan boat
but hardly walk in the park either. I also worked my share out on the
rigs and on several oil charting boats. None of them were easy but
the money was good at the time.
So the pay-off is the money.
Well, to get " equal wages ", yeah. Duh !
Post by s***@yahoo.com
This is a commonly repeated taunt aimed at women on soc.men and I think
No proof offered ? Idiot sexist pig fact free claim fails.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
it is bullshit.
No proof offered ? Etc.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
I was an infantryman for 3 years, 1965 - 1968 and I also know that not
many men could do that either.
" The plural of 'anecdote' is NOT 'citation'. "

Check out the comparitive performance test results found within the
pages of " Women In The Military; Flirting With Disaster ", by
Brian Mitchell. MOST men in basic could do the jobs, and almost all
could do them, after training, while MOST women in basic could NOT,
and one Navy task had a female failure rate, *afetr training* of
*99%*.

" Women; NOT cost effective in the forces. "
Post by s***@yahoo.com
But that doesn't stop the bitter brigade from taunting women with that
either. I venture that none of those bozos served in combat either.
It's just another stupid taunt that makes all of us look bad.
Ah, you're another loon Big Daddy Sir Galahad, coming to the rescue
of the helpless wimmins...

Thank you for AGREEING that women, *on their own* ( As in, without
you ), cannot hack it. <laughs>
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by jerkyboy
Oh, and I was/am one of those computer "geeks". I worked those jobs
in the summers and off time from school studying to be a "geek", so to
speak. And if you never met many men who couldnt work the rigs,
your circle of acquaintances must of been pretty small or limited.
Not many of the "gameboy" generation, that's assured. Most of my close
friends can and have worked those kinds of jobs, but they aren't on
soc.men taunting women.
Free Clue for Illiterate Retards: " women " and " feminists " are
NOT synonyms.

But, thanks for further showing that you have NO facts, NO arguments,
NO cites, and no deabte, aside from simple ad hominems...

Baby Feminists is SO *stoopid*. Especially the deballed male ones.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by jerkyboy
So my point still stands. If women claim to be held back, then why
are not they out there in all those dangerous, deadly, high paying
jobs in eequal numbers with the guys. They wouldnt be stopped. They
have to search the world for the guys to work them. Just about all
you have to do is apply. Same with the jobs working at the crab
processing plants up in Alaska. But the hours are long and hard there
as well. And messy, smelly as well as moderately dangerous. And you
would make 25 bucks an hour as well as getting your housing. Yet few
women, if any, work those plants. Men again. Nothing stopping the
gals applying and getting the jobs, for sure. Jobs go unfilled even
at 25 bucks an hour. So where are all these amazon feminists.
I don't understand your point at all or what you're trying to prove.
Then, contact your former education facilities, and arrange for them
to provide you with full refunds, as clearly, they left you UNABLE
to read for comprehension...
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Do you just dislike women?
No, its just you who dislike men...
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Nobody forced me to work on oil platforms or as
metal worker, no one forced me to join the Army, I volunteered, so what
point are you trying to make?
You went, they... DIDN'T.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Do you want to force people to work jobs that they don't want to do?
Nope, just pointing out that when the Heavy Lifting work needs to
be done, the WomenFirsters have all mysteriously... vanished.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
I chose to work outside.
And, most women choose not to. We merely *point out that truth*.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by jerkyboy
Again, we know where they are. Whining and moaning about the safe
corporate executive jobs that they just cant seem to be given, even
though they whine day and night.
Most of the whining I see in this newsgroup is from men who simply do
not like women and have a personal ax to grind..
No proof offered ? Ad hominem fact free MS-direction cowshit claim
fails.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by jerkyboy
So again I say, lets go gals. Get together with those feminist deep
pockets and form your own fishing fleet and make the big bucks. Out
of all the women in the US and Canada, surely there are enough women
worthy of such a job. Prove that its not just guy's who can do it.
Back up your claims rather than just whine about it.
I simply don't see the point in a challenge like that.
Of course not: You need balls and integrity to grasp his excellent
point.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
What point are you trying to make?
That women REFUSE to do the societally hard work. Duh.

Yes, Baby Feminists are THAT *stoopid* ! Thanks for adding to
the mounds of proof for that truth. <laughs>

Andre
Mark Borgerson
2006-03-27 20:00:53 UTC
Permalink
In article <e09e4s$r5a$***@theodyn.ncf.ca>, ***@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
says...
Post by Andre Lieven
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by jerkyboy
Never tried to claim all men could do it either. Alot of men couldnt,
you are right, but hardly the 90 percent you claim. Now, 90 percent
wouldnt want to do it, yes, because it takes a special kind of guts to
do the job. I didnt go on an Alaskan Crab boat, but I did work a Gulf
coast shrimper and carb boat. Not as challenging as the alaskan boat
but hardly walk in the park either. I also worked my share out on the
rigs and on several oil charting boats. None of them were easy but
the money was good at the time.
So the pay-off is the money.
Well, to get " equal wages ", yeah. Duh !
Post by s***@yahoo.com
This is a commonly repeated taunt aimed at women on soc.men and I think
No proof offered ? Idiot sexist pig fact free claim fails.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
it is bullshit.
No proof offered ? Etc.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
I was an infantryman for 3 years, 1965 - 1968 and I also know that not
many men could do that either.
" The plural of 'anecdote' is NOT 'citation'. "
Check out the comparitive performance test results found within the
pages of " Women In The Military; Flirting With Disaster ", by
Brian Mitchell. MOST men in basic could do the jobs, and almost all
could do them, after training, while MOST women in basic could NOT,
and one Navy task had a female failure rate, *afetr training* of
*99%*.
" Women; NOT cost effective in the forces. "
Post by s***@yahoo.com
But that doesn't stop the bitter brigade from taunting women with that
either. I venture that none of those bozos served in combat either.
It's just another stupid taunt that makes all of us look bad.
Ah, you're another loon Big Daddy Sir Galahad, coming to the rescue
of the helpless wimmins...
Thank you for AGREEING that women, *on their own* ( As in, without
you ), cannot hack it. <laughs>
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by jerkyboy
Oh, and I was/am one of those computer "geeks". I worked those jobs
in the summers and off time from school studying to be a "geek", so to
speak. And if you never met many men who couldnt work the rigs,
your circle of acquaintances must of been pretty small or limited.
Not many of the "gameboy" generation, that's assured. Most of my close
friends can and have worked those kinds of jobs, but they aren't on
soc.men taunting women.
Free Clue for Illiterate Retards: " women " and " feminists " are
NOT synonyms.
But, thanks for further showing that you have NO facts, NO arguments,
NO cites, and no deabte, aside from simple ad hominems...
Baby Feminists is SO *stoopid*. Especially the deballed male ones.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by jerkyboy
So my point still stands. If women claim to be held back, then why
are not they out there in all those dangerous, deadly, high paying
jobs in eequal numbers with the guys. They wouldnt be stopped. They
have to search the world for the guys to work them. Just about all
you have to do is apply. Same with the jobs working at the crab
processing plants up in Alaska. But the hours are long and hard there
as well. And messy, smelly as well as moderately dangerous. And you
would make 25 bucks an hour as well as getting your housing. Yet few
women, if any, work those plants. Men again. Nothing stopping the
gals applying and getting the jobs, for sure. Jobs go unfilled even
at 25 bucks an hour. So where are all these amazon feminists.
I don't understand your point at all or what you're trying to prove.
Then, contact your former education facilities, and arrange for them
to provide you with full refunds, as clearly, they left you UNABLE
to read for comprehension...
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Do you just dislike women?
No, its just you who dislike men...
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Nobody forced me to work on oil platforms or as
metal worker, no one forced me to join the Army, I volunteered, so what
point are you trying to make?
You went, they... DIDN'T.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Do you want to force people to work jobs that they don't want to do?
Nope, just pointing out that when the Heavy Lifting work needs to
be done, the WomenFirsters have all mysteriously... vanished.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
I chose to work outside.
And, most women choose not to. We merely *point out that truth*.
But you seem to ignore the fact that most men choose not to work in
the Alaskan crab fishery. If even 1% of the men in the US chose to
work as crab fishermen, there would be a labor surplus and the
wages would plummet. The reality is that 99.9999% of women don't
want to work as fishermen, and 99.99% of men don't want to work
as fishermen. When it comes to the really tough and dangerous jobs,
99+ percent of men and women have the same preferences.

Mark Borgerson
Dave_Symnpathy
2006-03-27 20:50:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Borgerson
says...
Post by Andre Lieven
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by jerkyboy
Never tried to claim all men could do it either. Alot of men couldnt,
you are right, but hardly the 90 percent you claim. Now, 90 percent
wouldnt want to do it, yes, because it takes a special kind of guts to
do the job. I didnt go on an Alaskan Crab boat, but I did work a Gulf
coast shrimper and carb boat. Not as challenging as the alaskan boat
but hardly walk in the park either. I also worked my share out on the
rigs and on several oil charting boats. None of them were easy but
the money was good at the time.
So the pay-off is the money.
Well, to get " equal wages ", yeah. Duh !
Post by s***@yahoo.com
This is a commonly repeated taunt aimed at women on soc.men and I think
No proof offered ? Idiot sexist pig fact free claim fails.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
it is bullshit.
No proof offered ? Etc.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
I was an infantryman for 3 years, 1965 - 1968 and I also know that not
many men could do that either.
" The plural of 'anecdote' is NOT 'citation'. "
Check out the comparitive performance test results found within the
pages of " Women In The Military; Flirting With Disaster ", by
Brian Mitchell. MOST men in basic could do the jobs, and almost all
could do them, after training, while MOST women in basic could NOT,
and one Navy task had a female failure rate, *afetr training* of
*99%*.
" Women; NOT cost effective in the forces. "
Post by s***@yahoo.com
But that doesn't stop the bitter brigade from taunting women with that
either. I venture that none of those bozos served in combat either.
It's just another stupid taunt that makes all of us look bad.
Ah, you're another loon Big Daddy Sir Galahad, coming to the rescue
of the helpless wimmins...
Thank you for AGREEING that women, *on their own* ( As in, without
you ), cannot hack it. <laughs>
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by jerkyboy
Oh, and I was/am one of those computer "geeks". I worked those jobs
in the summers and off time from school studying to be a "geek", so to
speak. And if you never met many men who couldnt work the rigs,
your circle of acquaintances must of been pretty small or limited.
Not many of the "gameboy" generation, that's assured. Most of my close
friends can and have worked those kinds of jobs, but they aren't on
soc.men taunting women.
Free Clue for Illiterate Retards: " women " and " feminists " are
NOT synonyms.
But, thanks for further showing that you have NO facts, NO arguments,
NO cites, and no deabte, aside from simple ad hominems...
Baby Feminists is SO *stoopid*. Especially the deballed male ones.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by jerkyboy
So my point still stands. If women claim to be held back, then why
are not they out there in all those dangerous, deadly, high paying
jobs in eequal numbers with the guys. They wouldnt be stopped. They
have to search the world for the guys to work them. Just about all
you have to do is apply. Same with the jobs working at the crab
processing plants up in Alaska. But the hours are long and hard there
as well. And messy, smelly as well as moderately dangerous. And you
would make 25 bucks an hour as well as getting your housing. Yet few
women, if any, work those plants. Men again. Nothing stopping the
gals applying and getting the jobs, for sure. Jobs go unfilled even
at 25 bucks an hour. So where are all these amazon feminists.
I don't understand your point at all or what you're trying to prove.
Then, contact your former education facilities, and arrange for them
to provide you with full refunds, as clearly, they left you UNABLE
to read for comprehension...
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Do you just dislike women?
No, its just you who dislike men...
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Nobody forced me to work on oil platforms or as
metal worker, no one forced me to join the Army, I volunteered, so what
point are you trying to make?
You went, they... DIDN'T.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Do you want to force people to work jobs that they don't want to do?
Nope, just pointing out that when the Heavy Lifting work needs to
be done, the WomenFirsters have all mysteriously... vanished.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
I chose to work outside.
And, most women choose not to. We merely *point out that truth*.
But you seem to ignore the fact that most men choose not to work in
the Alaskan crab fishery. If even 1% of the men in the US chose to
work as crab fishermen, there would be a labor surplus and the
wages would plummet. The reality is that 99.9999% of women don't
want to work as fishermen, and 99.99% of men don't want to work
as fishermen. When it comes to the really tough and dangerous jobs,
99+ percent of men and women have the same preferences.
Mark Borgerson
OK, noted, no argument.

However, out of the "toughest" and "most dangerous" jobs, what is the
percentage of men vs women? I bet its at least 10 to 1 men. Thats just a
guess and I may well be wrong. If I'm even close to the truth, then how do
you explain the figures? Women arent "allowed" to take these jobs? Or,
everyone is allowed, but fewer women than men are interested?

Perhaps it boils down to a bodily strength issue. I mean, you cant change
the requirements for an alaska crab fisher-person. That ocean doesnt care
what sex you are.
Mark Borgerson
2006-03-27 21:10:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
says...
Post by Andre Lieven
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by jerkyboy
Never tried to claim all men could do it either. Alot of men couldnt,
you are right, but hardly the 90 percent you claim. Now, 90 percent
wouldnt want to do it, yes, because it takes a special kind of guts to
do the job. I didnt go on an Alaskan Crab boat, but I did work a Gulf
coast shrimper and carb boat. Not as challenging as the alaskan boat
but hardly walk in the park either. I also worked my share out on the
rigs and on several oil charting boats. None of them were easy but
the money was good at the time.
So the pay-off is the money.
Well, to get " equal wages ", yeah. Duh !
Post by s***@yahoo.com
This is a commonly repeated taunt aimed at women on soc.men and I think
No proof offered ? Idiot sexist pig fact free claim fails.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
it is bullshit.
No proof offered ? Etc.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
I was an infantryman for 3 years, 1965 - 1968 and I also know that not
many men could do that either.
" The plural of 'anecdote' is NOT 'citation'. "
Check out the comparitive performance test results found within the
pages of " Women In The Military; Flirting With Disaster ", by
Brian Mitchell. MOST men in basic could do the jobs, and almost all
could do them, after training, while MOST women in basic could NOT,
and one Navy task had a female failure rate, *afetr training* of
*99%*.
" Women; NOT cost effective in the forces. "
Post by s***@yahoo.com
But that doesn't stop the bitter brigade from taunting women with that
either. I venture that none of those bozos served in combat either.
It's just another stupid taunt that makes all of us look bad.
Ah, you're another loon Big Daddy Sir Galahad, coming to the rescue
of the helpless wimmins...
Thank you for AGREEING that women, *on their own* ( As in, without
you ), cannot hack it. <laughs>
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by jerkyboy
Oh, and I was/am one of those computer "geeks". I worked those jobs
in the summers and off time from school studying to be a "geek", so to
speak. And if you never met many men who couldnt work the rigs,
your circle of acquaintances must of been pretty small or limited.
Not many of the "gameboy" generation, that's assured. Most of my close
friends can and have worked those kinds of jobs, but they aren't on
soc.men taunting women.
Free Clue for Illiterate Retards: " women " and " feminists " are
NOT synonyms.
But, thanks for further showing that you have NO facts, NO arguments,
NO cites, and no deabte, aside from simple ad hominems...
Baby Feminists is SO *stoopid*. Especially the deballed male ones.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by jerkyboy
So my point still stands. If women claim to be held back, then why
are not they out there in all those dangerous, deadly, high paying
jobs in eequal numbers with the guys. They wouldnt be stopped. They
have to search the world for the guys to work them. Just about all
you have to do is apply. Same with the jobs working at the crab
processing plants up in Alaska. But the hours are long and hard there
as well. And messy, smelly as well as moderately dangerous. And you
would make 25 bucks an hour as well as getting your housing. Yet few
women, if any, work those plants. Men again. Nothing stopping the
gals applying and getting the jobs, for sure. Jobs go unfilled even
at 25 bucks an hour. So where are all these amazon feminists.
I don't understand your point at all or what you're trying to prove.
Then, contact your former education facilities, and arrange for them
to provide you with full refunds, as clearly, they left you UNABLE
to read for comprehension...
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Do you just dislike women?
No, its just you who dislike men...
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Nobody forced me to work on oil platforms or as
metal worker, no one forced me to join the Army, I volunteered, so what
point are you trying to make?
You went, they... DIDN'T.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Do you want to force people to work jobs that they don't want to do?
Nope, just pointing out that when the Heavy Lifting work needs to
be done, the WomenFirsters have all mysteriously... vanished.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
I chose to work outside.
And, most women choose not to. We merely *point out that truth*.
But you seem to ignore the fact that most men choose not to work in
the Alaskan crab fishery. If even 1% of the men in the US chose to
work as crab fishermen, there would be a labor surplus and the
wages would plummet. The reality is that 99.9999% of women don't
want to work as fishermen, and 99.99% of men don't want to work
as fishermen. When it comes to the really tough and dangerous jobs,
99+ percent of men and women have the same preferences.
Mark Borgerson
OK, noted, no argument.
However, out of the "toughest" and "most dangerous" jobs, what is the
percentage of men vs women? I bet its at least 10 to 1 men. Thats just a
guess and I may well be wrong. If I'm even close to the truth, then how do
you explain the figures? Women arent "allowed" to take these jobs? Or,
everyone is allowed, but fewer women than men are interested?
I suspect a combination of interest and capability. Many fewer women
may have the capability AND the interest. If interest and ability
are uniformly distributed, and the number of men with the ability
is 100 times larger than the number of women, and the number of
men with the interest is 100 times that of women, you end up
with 10,000 men for each women (VERY oversimplified statistics,though).

The only "toughest" and "most dangerous" jobs where women have limited
opportunity, whatever their capability, are those ground combat
jobs in the US military. The Army seems to work their way around that
by assigning them to MP jobs in Baghdad! ;-)

The reality is that most men and women don't want the really tough
jobs enough to train for them and to endure the conditions of
the job. The remaining arguments about who actually does those
jobs are arguments about relative proportions of a small segment
of the population.


It's when you consider the jobs just below the "toughest" that you
can make more valid comparisons between the interests of men and
women. Construction work is a good example. A lot of construction
work is within the capability of women (particularly jobs involving
powered equipment operation). They just don't seem interested.
(Twenty years ago, I would have included logging in that category--
but loggers are an endangered species in Oregon and a lot of the
Western US.)
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Perhaps it boils down to a bodily strength issue. I mean, you cant change
the requirements for an alaska crab fisher-person. That ocean doesnt care
what sex you are.
I suspect that is the case for the crab fishery. Handling those traps
under the sea conditions prevalent in the Bering sea requires upper
body strength that only a VERY small percentage of women would have.

In other fisheries there are a few more women---according to my
wife, who spent a summer in the Alaskan troll salmon fishery.

I watched a number of the programs in "The Deadliest Catch" series on
Discovery channel. It's a very tough job, and season limitations
mean that there is a significant chance that the crew won't make
a lot of money. Of course, those same season limitations are
affecting almost all the West Coast and Alaskan fisheries these
days, and a lot of fishermen are being forced out of the business.



Mark Borgerson
Dave_Symnpathy
2006-03-27 21:57:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Borgerson
It's when you consider the jobs just below the "toughest" that you
can make more valid comparisons between the interests of men and
women. Construction work is a good example. A lot of construction
work is within the capability of women (particularly jobs involving
powered equipment operation). They just don't seem interested.
BINGO

Its like a lot of male-dominated work areas. Theres no precedent for women,
no role models, so, no women go into that line of work. The fact that these
endeavors often require significant body strength further reduces the
appeal for women. Its not that they CANT do it or they are disallowed. Its
that they dont want to.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Perhaps it boils down to a bodily strength issue. I mean, you cant change
the requirements for an alaska crab fisher-person. That ocean doesnt care
what sex you are.
I suspect that is the case for the crab fishery. Handling those traps
under the sea conditions prevalent in the Bering sea requires upper
body strength that only a VERY small percentage of women would have.
Exactly. that, and the fact that there are no women doing it now, will
ensure that are no women doing it, for a good long time.

Unless they could find a way to glamorize it. Make a stupid TV show with
really good looking models doing it and put it on LifeTime. Make it appeal
to the feminists by having the women beat a bunch of sexist men in a
crabbing contest.
Post by Mark Borgerson
In other fisheries there are a few more women---according to my
wife, who spent a summer in the Alaskan troll salmon fishery.
interesting. what sorts of work did these women do?
Mark Borgerson
2006-03-27 22:39:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
It's when you consider the jobs just below the "toughest" that you
can make more valid comparisons between the interests of men and
women. Construction work is a good example. A lot of construction
work is within the capability of women (particularly jobs involving
powered equipment operation). They just don't seem interested.
BINGO
Its like a lot of male-dominated work areas. Theres no precedent for women,
no role models, so, no women go into that line of work. The fact that these
endeavors often require significant body strength further reduces the
appeal for women. Its not that they CANT do it or they are disallowed. Its
that they dont want to.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Perhaps it boils down to a bodily strength issue. I mean, you cant change
the requirements for an alaska crab fisher-person. That ocean doesnt care
what sex you are.
I suspect that is the case for the crab fishery. Handling those traps
under the sea conditions prevalent in the Bering sea requires upper
body strength that only a VERY small percentage of women would have.
Exactly. that, and the fact that there are no women doing it now, will
ensure that are no women doing it, for a good long time.
According to a writer from Oregon who spent several seasons in the
crab fishery, There was one woman among the crews on the various
boats. Apparently that wasn't enough to start a flood of women
volunteers.

In any case any newcomer to crab fishing is going to have a hard time
getting a job. There are more experienced deckhands than jobs at this
point.

http://www.cvtips.com/king_crab_industry_employment.html
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Unless they could find a way to glamorize it. Make a stupid TV show with
really good looking models doing it and put it on LifeTime. Make it appeal
to the feminists by having the women beat a bunch of sexist men in a
crabbing contest.
Perhaps a reality show: "Survivor Kodiak" ;-)
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
In other fisheries there are a few more women---according to my
wife, who spent a summer in the Alaskan troll salmon fishery.
interesting. what sorts of work did these women do?
Pull fish off the lines, clean fish, bait the lines, shovel
ice in the holds, cook salmon for dinner, etc. I think the
lines are pulled in by hydraulics, so it is mostly just a
matter of handling the fish---which generally don't weigh
more than 30 pounds or so. It requires a lot less upper
body strength than handling a thousand pounds of trap and
crab. Pay is a lot lower than crab fishing, but the work
is easier and less dangerous.


http://www.cvtips.com/summer_jobs_alaska.html


IIRC my wife got her summer job because the boat owner
was a friend of her dad's. Her family are avid hunters
and fishermen and she was majoring in fisheries science,
so the job was good experience for her.


Mark Borgerson
jerkyboy
2006-03-28 02:24:45 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:39:52 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
It's when you consider the jobs just below the "toughest" that you
can make more valid comparisons between the interests of men and
women. Construction work is a good example. A lot of construction
work is within the capability of women (particularly jobs involving
powered equipment operation). They just don't seem interested.
BINGO
Its like a lot of male-dominated work areas. Theres no precedent for women,
no role models, so, no women go into that line of work. The fact that these
endeavors often require significant body strength further reduces the
appeal for women. Its not that they CANT do it or they are disallowed. Its
that they dont want to.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Perhaps it boils down to a bodily strength issue. I mean, you cant change
the requirements for an alaska crab fisher-person. That ocean doesnt care
what sex you are.
I suspect that is the case for the crab fishery. Handling those traps
under the sea conditions prevalent in the Bering sea requires upper
body strength that only a VERY small percentage of women would have.
Exactly. that, and the fact that there are no women doing it now, will
ensure that are no women doing it, for a good long time.
According to a writer from Oregon who spent several seasons in the
crab fishery, There was one woman among the crews on the various
boats. Apparently that wasn't enough to start a flood of women
volunteers.
In any case any newcomer to crab fishing is going to have a hard time
getting a job. There are more experienced deckhands than jobs at this
point.
http://www.cvtips.com/king_crab_industry_employment.html
I am curious, did you even read much of this site? If you actually
did, then that would not be the conclusion. Actually, it would apply
just to a greenhorn position on the crabber, while there are many
other fishing jobs available such as in processing and salmon fishing.
All of which pay good money. And few women that work in any of them
in comparison to the numbers of men.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Unless they could find a way to glamorize it. Make a stupid TV show with
really good looking models doing it and put it on LifeTime. Make it appeal
to the feminists by having the women beat a bunch of sexist men in a
crabbing contest.
Perhaps a reality show: "Survivor Kodiak" ;-)
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
In other fisheries there are a few more women---according to my
wife, who spent a summer in the Alaskan troll salmon fishery.
interesting. what sorts of work did these women do?
Pull fish off the lines, clean fish, bait the lines, shovel
ice in the holds, cook salmon for dinner, etc. I think the
lines are pulled in by hydraulics, so it is mostly just a
matter of handling the fish---which generally don't weigh
more than 30 pounds or so. It requires a lot less upper
body strength than handling a thousand pounds of trap and
crab. Pay is a lot lower than crab fishing, but the work
is easier and less dangerous
Pay is lower, but how much lower depends alot on what type of boat and
what job. Its hardly ALOT lower. Less dangerous, yes, but still
dangerous.

Try handling slippery 30 pound fish for sometimes 20 hours a day. Oh,
yea...real easy work. And its not all "line" fishing for salmon.
Various types of sein nets, gill, etc.

Curious, have you ever worked a pitching deck, sorting and tossing
fish, trash fish and other items hauled in by the nets...a pitching
deck that wet, sometimes icy, slimy with fish gore, scales and just
plain slime. All the while working in and around nets, lines., etc.
Most women on the boats, if there, are there as a cook, with only very
few ever working the deck.
Post by Mark Borgerson
http://www.cvtips.com/summer_jobs_alaska.html
IIRC my wife got her summer job because the boat owner
was a friend of her dad's. Her family are avid hunters
and fishermen and she was majoring in fisheries science,
so the job was good experience for her.
Mark Borgerson
Mark Borgerson
2006-03-28 02:56:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by jerkyboy
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:39:52 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
It's when you consider the jobs just below the "toughest" that you
can make more valid comparisons between the interests of men and
women. Construction work is a good example. A lot of construction
work is within the capability of women (particularly jobs involving
powered equipment operation). They just don't seem interested.
BINGO
Its like a lot of male-dominated work areas. Theres no precedent for women,
no role models, so, no women go into that line of work. The fact that these
endeavors often require significant body strength further reduces the
appeal for women. Its not that they CANT do it or they are disallowed. Its
that they dont want to.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Perhaps it boils down to a bodily strength issue. I mean, you cant change
the requirements for an alaska crab fisher-person. That ocean doesnt care
what sex you are.
I suspect that is the case for the crab fishery. Handling those traps
under the sea conditions prevalent in the Bering sea requires upper
body strength that only a VERY small percentage of women would have.
Exactly. that, and the fact that there are no women doing it now, will
ensure that are no women doing it, for a good long time.
According to a writer from Oregon who spent several seasons in the
crab fishery, There was one woman among the crews on the various
boats. Apparently that wasn't enough to start a flood of women
volunteers.
In any case any newcomer to crab fishing is going to have a hard time
getting a job. There are more experienced deckhands than jobs at this
point.
http://www.cvtips.com/king_crab_industry_employment.html
I am curious, did you even read much of this site? If you actually
did, then that would not be the conclusion. Actually, it would apply
just to a greenhorn position on the crabber, while there are many
other fishing jobs available such as in processing and salmon fishing.
All of which pay good money. And few women that work in any of them
in comparison to the numbers of men.
Yes, I read the site. And, like you say, it is difficult for a
newcomer to get a job in the crab fishing industry. Even those with
several years experience on salmon boats would find it difficult
to get in now.
Post by jerkyboy
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Unless they could find a way to glamorize it. Make a stupid TV show with
really good looking models doing it and put it on LifeTime. Make it appeal
to the feminists by having the women beat a bunch of sexist men in a
crabbing contest.
Perhaps a reality show: "Survivor Kodiak" ;-)
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
In other fisheries there are a few more women---according to my
wife, who spent a summer in the Alaskan troll salmon fishery.
interesting. what sorts of work did these women do?
Pull fish off the lines, clean fish, bait the lines, shovel
ice in the holds, cook salmon for dinner, etc. I think the
lines are pulled in by hydraulics, so it is mostly just a
matter of handling the fish---which generally don't weigh
more than 30 pounds or so. It requires a lot less upper
body strength than handling a thousand pounds of trap and
crab. Pay is a lot lower than crab fishing, but the work
is easier and less dangerous
Pay is lower, but how much lower depends alot on what type of boat and
what job. Its hardly ALOT lower. Less dangerous, yes, but still
dangerous.
Cites? Stats on relative pay? IIRC deckhands on crab boats can
make $50,000 in a good season. Deckhands in the other fisheries
make about $20,000. That seems a significant difference to me.
(Those numbers are from the website I provided in the last post.
If you have different stats, please provide them.)
Post by jerkyboy
Try handling slippery 30 pound fish for sometimes 20 hours a day. Oh,
yea...real easy work. And its not all "line" fishing for salmon.
Various types of sein nets, gill, etc.
I haven't tried it. My wife did, though. I think it confirmed her
desire to stay in college and get her degree in fisheries biology.
Now she only has to worry about determining salmon life history
by reading scales. What boat were you on, and when?
Post by jerkyboy
Curious, have you ever worked a pitching deck, sorting and tossing
fish, trash fish and other items hauled in by the nets...a pitching
deck that wet, sometimes icy, slimy with fish gore, scales and just
plain slime. All the while working in and around nets, lines., etc.
Most women on the boats, if there, are there as a cook, with only very
few ever working the deck.
Is this based on your personal experience? If so, it was different
than my wife's experience. I only worked on pitching decks as
a naval officer or oceanographic research assistant. Neither
job involved fish. Just recalcitrant electronics or sampling
equipment--there was some slime involved if the sampling
equipment was in place for longer than a few weeks, though.
Post by jerkyboy
Post by Mark Borgerson
http://www.cvtips.com/summer_jobs_alaska.html
IIRC my wife got her summer job because the boat owner
was a friend of her dad's. Her family are avid hunters
and fishermen and she was majoring in fisheries science,
so the job was good experience for her.
Mark Borgerson
jerkyboy
2006-03-28 04:09:55 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 18:56:50 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:39:52 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
It's when you consider the jobs just below the "toughest" that you
can make more valid comparisons between the interests of men and
women. Construction work is a good example. A lot of construction
work is within the capability of women (particularly jobs involving
powered equipment operation). They just don't seem interested.
BINGO
Its like a lot of male-dominated work areas. Theres no precedent for women,
no role models, so, no women go into that line of work. The fact that these
endeavors often require significant body strength further reduces the
appeal for women. Its not that they CANT do it or they are disallowed. Its
that they dont want to.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Perhaps it boils down to a bodily strength issue. I mean, you cant change
the requirements for an alaska crab fisher-person. That ocean doesnt care
what sex you are.
I suspect that is the case for the crab fishery. Handling those traps
under the sea conditions prevalent in the Bering sea requires upper
body strength that only a VERY small percentage of women would have.
Exactly. that, and the fact that there are no women doing it now, will
ensure that are no women doing it, for a good long time.
According to a writer from Oregon who spent several seasons in the
crab fishery, There was one woman among the crews on the various
boats. Apparently that wasn't enough to start a flood of women
volunteers.
In any case any newcomer to crab fishing is going to have a hard time
getting a job. There are more experienced deckhands than jobs at this
point.
http://www.cvtips.com/king_crab_industry_employment.html
I am curious, did you even read much of this site? If you actually
did, then that would not be the conclusion. Actually, it would apply
just to a greenhorn position on the crabber, while there are many
other fishing jobs available such as in processing and salmon fishing.
All of which pay good money. And few women that work in any of them
in comparison to the numbers of men.
Yes, I read the site. And, like you say, it is difficult for a
newcomer to get a job in the crab fishing industry. Even those with
several years experience on salmon boats would find it difficult
to get in now.
Depends on how anxious they would be. It is possible to purchase and
outfit your own boat. And if feminists wanted to prove a point, they
could do so quite easily. Hire a captain, and make the rest of the
crew women.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Unless they could find a way to glamorize it. Make a stupid TV show with
really good looking models doing it and put it on LifeTime. Make it appeal
to the feminists by having the women beat a bunch of sexist men in a
crabbing contest.
Perhaps a reality show: "Survivor Kodiak" ;-)
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
In other fisheries there are a few more women---according to my
wife, who spent a summer in the Alaskan troll salmon fishery.
interesting. what sorts of work did these women do?
Pull fish off the lines, clean fish, bait the lines, shovel
ice in the holds, cook salmon for dinner, etc. I think the
lines are pulled in by hydraulics, so it is mostly just a
matter of handling the fish---which generally don't weigh
more than 30 pounds or so. It requires a lot less upper
body strength than handling a thousand pounds of trap and
crab. Pay is a lot lower than crab fishing, but the work
is easier and less dangerous
Pay is lower, but how much lower depends alot on what type of boat and
what job. Its hardly ALOT lower. Less dangerous, yes, but still
dangerous.
Cites? Stats on relative pay? IIRC deckhands on crab boats can
make $50,000 in a good season. Deckhands in the other fisheries
Average is more like 35,000 maybe a bit higher. In the other fisheries
its as high as 30,000 for some of the Salmon boats depending on the
rigging and netting they use.
Post by Mark Borgerson
make about $20,000. That seems a significant difference to me.
(Those numbers are from the website I provided in the last post.
If you have different stats, please provide them.)
Most of what I know is from personal experience. I worked several
shrimpers in the Gulf of Mexico for a few summers and I had an uncle
who ran a boat out of British Columbia. I spent a couple of summers
on his boat in my teens and worked for him for a time after I got out
of the service. And a friend of mine had a shrimp bar and restaraunt
on the gulf that I used to go out on with him off and on. he just ran
the boat to get the shrimp for his place. I would get paid in shrimp
and blue crab. Good eating. Would take home a couple of coolers
full. Sell one and put the rest in the freezer. And when the blues
were running we would head out with a few other guys on his boat and
fish, drink a few beers and generally enjoy the ocean and the fishing.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
Try handling slippery 30 pound fish for sometimes 20 hours a day. Oh,
yea...real easy work. And its not all "line" fishing for salmon.
Various types of sein nets, gill, etc.
I haven't tried it. My wife did, though. I think it confirmed her
desire to stay in college and get her degree in fisheries biology.
Now she only has to worry about determining salmon life history
by reading scales. What boat were you on, and when?
One of the shrmpers was the Selma May, the other I cant remember at
the moment. Its been more than a few years. The name of my uncles
boat I wont give, sorry. And since I am now in my 50's, that should
give you some idea about when it was.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
Curious, have you ever worked a pitching deck, sorting and tossing
fish, trash fish and other items hauled in by the nets...a pitching
deck that wet, sometimes icy, slimy with fish gore, scales and just
plain slime. All the while working in and around nets, lines., etc.
Most women on the boats, if there, are there as a cook, with only very
few ever working the deck.
Is this based on your personal experience? If so, it was different
than my wife's experience. I only worked on pitching decks as
Based on my experience. And it depends alot on the type of boat your
wife worked and how long. If she only worked one type of boat, then
its pretty limited experience. Shrimping is a slimy job though for
sure. They fall on the deck, get walked on, etc and the result is
like walking on ice.
Post by Mark Borgerson
a naval officer or oceanographic research assistant. Neither
job involved fish. Just recalcitrant electronics or sampling
I worked an ocean going oil exploration ship. The electronics I
worked was concerned with that rather than ships instruments.
Post by Mark Borgerson
equipment--there was some slime involved if the sampling
equipment was in place for longer than a few weeks, though.
Well, never much ran into slime on the oil company boats either except
when one of the lines would tangle with an old fishing net that was
drifting or was caught up where it had tangled on an underwater
obstruction. Didnt happen often, but.....

Anyway, the point of my post was to make a statement. Feminists have
claimed for years that women were/are kept out of predomanently mens
jobs. And the same with pay scales. Which has been nothing more than
a lie at worst and at best an exageration. Woemn keep themselves out.
And it has nothing to do with any kind of "role model" of other women
doing the job. It all has to do with their abilities and their
wanting the safer and more comfortable jobs. Nothing wrong with that.
Men arent any different but men WILL do whatever job they can get. The
type of job that men might prefer and the job they actually get and
work can be completely different. I have worked jobs that, while
physically easy, were so stressful that I was more than happy to say
goodbye to them. They were also jobs that few women worked.
I am just tired of women, ie the feminists, whining about they are
being held back and whining that they arent getting paid like guys
when it is just so much bullshit.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
Post by Mark Borgerson
http://www.cvtips.com/summer_jobs_alaska.html
IIRC my wife got her summer job because the boat owner
was a friend of her dad's. Her family are avid hunters
and fishermen and she was majoring in fisheries science,
so the job was good experience for her.
Mark Borgerson
Dave_Symnpathy
2006-03-28 15:58:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by jerkyboy
I am just tired of women, ie the feminists, whining about they are
being held back and whining that they arent getting paid like guys
when it is just so much bullshit.
Ignore them, most of the rest of the world does. In case you havent
noticed, there is a significant amount of men whining about all sorts of
things, right on this newsgroup.
Mark Borgerson
2006-03-28 18:04:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by jerkyboy
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 18:56:50 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:39:52 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
It's when you consider the jobs just below the "toughest" that you
can make more valid comparisons between the interests of men and
women. Construction work is a good example. A lot of construction
work is within the capability of women (particularly jobs involving
powered equipment operation). They just don't seem interested.
BINGO
Its like a lot of male-dominated work areas. Theres no precedent for women,
no role models, so, no women go into that line of work. The fact that these
endeavors often require significant body strength further reduces the
appeal for women. Its not that they CANT do it or they are disallowed. Its
that they dont want to.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Perhaps it boils down to a bodily strength issue. I mean, you cant change
the requirements for an alaska crab fisher-person. That ocean doesnt care
what sex you are.
I suspect that is the case for the crab fishery. Handling those traps
under the sea conditions prevalent in the Bering sea requires upper
body strength that only a VERY small percentage of women would have.
Exactly. that, and the fact that there are no women doing it now, will
ensure that are no women doing it, for a good long time.
According to a writer from Oregon who spent several seasons in the
crab fishery, There was one woman among the crews on the various
boats. Apparently that wasn't enough to start a flood of women
volunteers.
In any case any newcomer to crab fishing is going to have a hard time
getting a job. There are more experienced deckhands than jobs at this
point.
http://www.cvtips.com/king_crab_industry_employment.html
I am curious, did you even read much of this site? If you actually
did, then that would not be the conclusion. Actually, it would apply
just to a greenhorn position on the crabber, while there are many
other fishing jobs available such as in processing and salmon fishing.
All of which pay good money. And few women that work in any of them
in comparison to the numbers of men.
Yes, I read the site. And, like you say, it is difficult for a
newcomer to get a job in the crab fishing industry. Even those with
several years experience on salmon boats would find it difficult
to get in now.
Depends on how anxious they would be. It is possible to purchase and
outfit your own boat. And if feminists wanted to prove a point, they
could do so quite easily. Hire a captain, and make the rest of the
crew women.
Can't do that easily. The government is imposing quotas and actually
buying back crab boats to reduce the number of boats in the fishery. A
newcomer would have to buy an existing boat---and the current owners
are fighting to stay in the business:

"To be implemented in 2005, the quota system was, in part, designed to
make the industry safer. It likely also will result in fewer boats
fishing, as quotas get leased, bought and sold, consolidating the
industry."

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/179623_crab26.html?source=rss
Post by jerkyboy
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Unless they could find a way to glamorize it. Make a stupid TV show with
really good looking models doing it and put it on LifeTime. Make it appeal
to the feminists by having the women beat a bunch of sexist men in a
crabbing contest.
Perhaps a reality show: "Survivor Kodiak" ;-)
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
In other fisheries there are a few more women---according to my
wife, who spent a summer in the Alaskan troll salmon fishery.
interesting. what sorts of work did these women do?
Pull fish off the lines, clean fish, bait the lines, shovel
ice in the holds, cook salmon for dinner, etc. I think the
lines are pulled in by hydraulics, so it is mostly just a
matter of handling the fish---which generally don't weigh
more than 30 pounds or so. It requires a lot less upper
body strength than handling a thousand pounds of trap and
crab. Pay is a lot lower than crab fishing, but the work
is easier and less dangerous
Pay is lower, but how much lower depends alot on what type of boat and
what job. Its hardly ALOT lower. Less dangerous, yes, but still
dangerous.
Cites? Stats on relative pay? IIRC deckhands on crab boats can
make $50,000 in a good season. Deckhands in the other fisheries
Average is more like 35,000 maybe a bit higher. In the other fisheries
its as high as 30,000 for some of the Salmon boats depending on the
rigging and netting they use.
Post by Mark Borgerson
make about $20,000. That seems a significant difference to me.
(Those numbers are from the website I provided in the last post.
If you have different stats, please provide them.)
Most of what I know is from personal experience. I worked several
shrimpers in the Gulf of Mexico for a few summers and I had an uncle
who ran a boat out of British Columbia. I spent a couple of summers
on his boat in my teens and worked for him for a time after I got out
of the service. And a friend of mine had a shrimp bar and restaraunt
on the gulf that I used to go out on with him off and on. he just ran
the boat to get the shrimp for his place. I would get paid in shrimp
and blue crab. Good eating. Would take home a couple of coolers
full. Sell one and put the rest in the freezer. And when the blues
were running we would head out with a few other guys on his boat and
fish, drink a few beers and generally enjoy the ocean and the fishing.
How do the risks and opportunities in the Gulf Coast shrimp fishery
compare with the Alaskan crab fishery? I would guess the weather
is more moderate except during hurricane season. Does the shrimp
fishery have the same short seasons that force the crab boats out even
in really nasty weather? My 'familiarity' with the shrimp fishery
comes mostly from eating at Bubba Gump's in Hawaii and watching
'Forrest Gump'.

Where did you fish in BC? We're planning a sailing vacation up there
later this summer. We stick to destinations in the Gulf Islands
and Desolation Sound, though. I got enough 30-foot Pacific swells on
oceanographic and naval vessels.
Post by jerkyboy
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
Try handling slippery 30 pound fish for sometimes 20 hours a day.
Oh,
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
yea...real easy work. And its not all "line" fishing for salmon.
Various types of sein nets, gill, etc.
I haven't tried it. My wife did, though. I think it confirmed her
desire to stay in college and get her degree in fisheries biology.
Now she only has to worry about determining salmon life history
by reading scales. What boat were you on, and when?
One of the shrmpers was the Selma May, the other I cant remember at
the moment. Its been more than a few years. The name of my uncles
boat I wont give, sorry. And since I am now in my 50's, that should
give you some idea about when it was.
My wife is near the same age. Her commercial fishing experience
was also about 3 decades back.
Post by jerkyboy
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
Curious, have you ever worked a pitching deck, sorting and tossing
fish, trash fish and other items hauled in by the nets...a pitching
deck that wet, sometimes icy, slimy with fish gore, scales and just
plain slime. All the while working in and around nets, lines., etc.
Most women on the boats, if there, are there as a cook, with only very
few ever working the deck.
Is this based on your personal experience? If so, it was different
than my wife's experience. I only worked on pitching decks as
Based on my experience. And it depends alot on the type of boat your
wife worked and how long. If she only worked one type of boat, then
its pretty limited experience. Shrimping is a slimy job though for
sure. They fall on the deck, get walked on, etc and the result is
like walking on ice.
She was on a 65' offshore salmon troller. The seasons were longer back
then, and they could afford to run from bad weather, unlike the
crabbers.
Post by jerkyboy
Post by Mark Borgerson
a naval officer or oceanographic research assistant. Neither
job involved fish. Just recalcitrant electronics or sampling
I worked an ocean going oil exploration ship. The electronics I
worked was concerned with that rather than ships instruments.
I was doing signal intelligence work in the Navy--we had our own
suite of instruments separate from the ship's stuff. As a research
assistant, I was either measuring dissolved gases in seawater or
developing data logging instruments. There's some pictures from
those days at www.oes.to
Post by jerkyboy
Post by Mark Borgerson
equipment--there was some slime involved if the sampling
equipment was in place for longer than a few weeks, though.
Well, never much ran into slime on the oil company boats either except
when one of the lines would tangle with an old fishing net that was
drifting or was caught up where it had tangled on an underwater
obstruction. Didnt happen often, but.....
The worst time on the oceanographic vessels was when they were doing
box cores---the decks got covered in stinking mud.

On the Navy ships (the round-bottomed DE's in particular, the slime
was generally regurgitated mess deck offerings. ;-)
Post by jerkyboy
Anyway, the point of my post was to make a statement. Feminists have
claimed for years that women were/are kept out of predomanently mens
jobs. And the same with pay scales. Which has been nothing more than
a lie at worst and at best an exageration. Woemn keep themselves out.
In some jobs, such as the Alaskan crab fishery, you have to add
economic conditions that are reducing the opportunities for men and
women alike. Disapearing jobs and quota restrictions mean that if
you weren't doing the job 10 years ago, it's tough to get in now. That
still begs the question why more women weren't in the jobs a decade ago.
Post by jerkyboy
And it has nothing to do with any kind of "role model" of other women
doing the job. It all has to do with their abilities and their
wanting the safer and more comfortable jobs. Nothing wrong with that.
Men arent any different but men WILL do whatever job they can get. The
type of job that men might prefer and the job they actually get and
work can be completely different. I have worked jobs that, while
physically easy, were so stressful that I was more than happy to say
goodbye to them.
Me too. That's why I'm self employed now.
Post by jerkyboy
They were also jobs that few women worked.
I am just tired of women, ie the feminists, whining about they are
being held back and whining that they arent getting paid like guys
when it is just so much bullshit.
Hate to sound too much like Andre, but you should read "Why Men Earn
More" by Warren Farrell.

He has a good analysis of the 'earnings gap' He also hypothesizes that
men's job patterns are starting to look more like women's:

Why Men Earn More pg. 142

"My projection is that by 2020, approximately 70% of dads will have
responsibilities that are significantly divided between work and
home. Making use of the gift of working women, then, involves
treating women as pioneers in helping companies adapt to the divided
responsibilities that will be twenty-first-century reality. It also
involves helping employees understand why someone whith divided
responsibilities cannot be paid as much as someone whose
responsibilities are more fully focused on work."


Mark Borgerson
jerkyboy
2006-03-29 20:09:50 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:04:11 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 18:56:50 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:39:52 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
It's when you consider the jobs just below the "toughest" that you
can make more valid comparisons between the interests of men and
women. Construction work is a good example. A lot of construction
work is within the capability of women (particularly jobs involving
powered equipment operation). They just don't seem interested.
BINGO
Its like a lot of male-dominated work areas. Theres no precedent for women,
no role models, so, no women go into that line of work. The fact that these
endeavors often require significant body strength further reduces the
appeal for women. Its not that they CANT do it or they are disallowed. Its
that they dont want to.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Perhaps it boils down to a bodily strength issue. I mean, you cant change
the requirements for an alaska crab fisher-person. That ocean doesnt care
what sex you are.
I suspect that is the case for the crab fishery. Handling those traps
under the sea conditions prevalent in the Bering sea requires upper
body strength that only a VERY small percentage of women would have.
Exactly. that, and the fact that there are no women doing it now, will
ensure that are no women doing it, for a good long time.
According to a writer from Oregon who spent several seasons in the
crab fishery, There was one woman among the crews on the various
boats. Apparently that wasn't enough to start a flood of women
volunteers.
In any case any newcomer to crab fishing is going to have a hard time
getting a job. There are more experienced deckhands than jobs at this
point.
http://www.cvtips.com/king_crab_industry_employment.html
I am curious, did you even read much of this site? If you actually
did, then that would not be the conclusion. Actually, it would apply
just to a greenhorn position on the crabber, while there are many
other fishing jobs available such as in processing and salmon fishing.
All of which pay good money. And few women that work in any of them
in comparison to the numbers of men.
Yes, I read the site. And, like you say, it is difficult for a
newcomer to get a job in the crab fishing industry. Even those with
several years experience on salmon boats would find it difficult
to get in now.
Depends on how anxious they would be. It is possible to purchase and
outfit your own boat. And if feminists wanted to prove a point, they
could do so quite easily. Hire a captain, and make the rest of the
crew women.
Can't do that easily. The government is imposing quotas and actually
buying back crab boats to reduce the number of boats in the fishery. A
newcomer would have to buy an existing boat---and the current owners
Then do it in one of the other fisheries. But even there you dont see
it. Regardless of your other post talking about women skippers, they
jost dont exist, at least much in numbers.
Post by Mark Borgerson
"To be implemented in 2005, the quota system was, in part, designed to
make the industry safer. It likely also will result in fewer boats
fishing, as quotas get leased, bought and sold, consolidating the
industry."
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/179623_crab26.html?source=rss
Post by jerkyboy
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Unless they could find a way to glamorize it. Make a stupid TV show with
really good looking models doing it and put it on LifeTime. Make it appeal
to the feminists by having the women beat a bunch of sexist men in a
crabbing contest.
Perhaps a reality show: "Survivor Kodiak" ;-)
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
In other fisheries there are a few more women---according to my
wife, who spent a summer in the Alaskan troll salmon fishery.
interesting. what sorts of work did these women do?
Pull fish off the lines, clean fish, bait the lines, shovel
ice in the holds, cook salmon for dinner, etc. I think the
lines are pulled in by hydraulics, so it is mostly just a
matter of handling the fish---which generally don't weigh
more than 30 pounds or so. It requires a lot less upper
body strength than handling a thousand pounds of trap and
crab. Pay is a lot lower than crab fishing, but the work
is easier and less dangerous
Pay is lower, but how much lower depends alot on what type of boat and
what job. Its hardly ALOT lower. Less dangerous, yes, but still
dangerous.
Cites? Stats on relative pay? IIRC deckhands on crab boats can
make $50,000 in a good season. Deckhands in the other fisheries
Average is more like 35,000 maybe a bit higher. In the other fisheries
its as high as 30,000 for some of the Salmon boats depending on the
rigging and netting they use.
Post by Mark Borgerson
make about $20,000. That seems a significant difference to me.
(Those numbers are from the website I provided in the last post.
If you have different stats, please provide them.)
Most of what I know is from personal experience. I worked several
shrimpers in the Gulf of Mexico for a few summers and I had an uncle
who ran a boat out of British Columbia. I spent a couple of summers
on his boat in my teens and worked for him for a time after I got out
of the service. And a friend of mine had a shrimp bar and restaraunt
on the gulf that I used to go out on with him off and on. he just ran
the boat to get the shrimp for his place. I would get paid in shrimp
and blue crab. Good eating. Would take home a couple of coolers
full. Sell one and put the rest in the freezer. And when the blues
were running we would head out with a few other guys on his boat and
fish, drink a few beers and generally enjoy the ocean and the fishing.
How do the risks and opportunities in the Gulf Coast shrimp fishery
compare with the Alaskan crab fishery? I would guess the weather
When I was doing it, the opportuniities were there for anyone who
could get a boat out. And skippers went out many times with short
crews.
Post by Mark Borgerson
is more moderate except during hurricane season. Does the shrimp
In the Gulf the weather is just as unpredictable. The seas can be
just as rough. As well, the primary season for shrimp happens to
coincide with the hurricaine season.
Post by Mark Borgerson
fishery have the same short seasons that force the crab boats out even
in really nasty weather? My 'familiarity' with the shrimp fishery
The shrimp season now is far reduced compared to when I was out there.
Plus regulations have reduced the catch that a boat can even bring in.
As well as having to equip the nets with the turtle excluders which
can also hurt your catch.
Post by Mark Borgerson
comes mostly from eating at Bubba Gump's in Hawaii and watching
'Forrest Gump'.
Hehehe...yea, I watched the Gump movie. And had a good laugh at the
shrimping part. Hardly representative.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Where did you fish in BC? We're planning a sailing vacation up there
My uncle sailed out of a small port on Vancouver Island. He fished NW
and west of the island itself. My visits to the area almost
convinced me to stay. Its a beatiful area and BC itself, well, I
almost became a Canadian. If I had to do it all over again I would
stay.
Post by Mark Borgerson
later this summer. We stick to destinations in the Gulf Islands
and Desolation Sound, though. I got enough 30-foot Pacific swells on
oceanographic and naval vessels.
We got the full swells, believe me, to the west.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
Try handling slippery 30 pound fish for sometimes 20 hours a day.
Oh,
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
yea...real easy work. And its not all "line" fishing for salmon.
Various types of sein nets, gill, etc.
I haven't tried it. My wife did, though. I think it confirmed her
desire to stay in college and get her degree in fisheries biology.
Now she only has to worry about determining salmon life history
by reading scales. What boat were you on, and when?
One of the shrmpers was the Selma May, the other I cant remember at
the moment. Its been more than a few years. The name of my uncles
boat I wont give, sorry. And since I am now in my 50's, that should
give you some idea about when it was.
My wife is near the same age. Her commercial fishing experience
was also about 3 decades back.
The life itself doesnt change except for the regulations and how they
change it as a result.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
Curious, have you ever worked a pitching deck, sorting and tossing
fish, trash fish and other items hauled in by the nets...a pitching
deck that wet, sometimes icy, slimy with fish gore, scales and just
plain slime. All the while working in and around nets, lines., etc.
Most women on the boats, if there, are there as a cook, with only very
few ever working the deck.
Is this based on your personal experience? If so, it was different
than my wife's experience. I only worked on pitching decks as
Based on my experience. And it depends alot on the type of boat your
wife worked and how long. If she only worked one type of boat, then
its pretty limited experience. Shrimping is a slimy job though for
sure. They fall on the deck, get walked on, etc and the result is
like walking on ice.
She was on a 65' offshore salmon troller. The seasons were longer back
then, and they could afford to run from bad weather, unlike the
crabbers.
Small boat....that would not have been a fun boat to be on in rough
weather. A crabber is small at about a 90 feet.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
Post by Mark Borgerson
a naval officer or oceanographic research assistant. Neither
job involved fish. Just recalcitrant electronics or sampling
I worked an ocean going oil exploration ship. The electronics I
worked was concerned with that rather than ships instruments.
I was doing signal intelligence work in the Navy--we had our own
suite of instruments separate from the ship's stuff. As a research
assistant, I was either measuring dissolved gases in seawater or
developing data logging instruments. There's some pictures from
those days at www.oes.to
I will check em out. Dont have many photo's from my days at sea
anymore. Lost most of mine in a fire years ago. So mostly just have
my memories nowadays.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
Post by Mark Borgerson
equipment--there was some slime involved if the sampling
equipment was in place for longer than a few weeks, though.
Well, never much ran into slime on the oil company boats either except
when one of the lines would tangle with an old fishing net that was
drifting or was caught up where it had tangled on an underwater
obstruction. Didnt happen often, but.....
The worst time on the oceanographic vessels was when they were doing
box cores---the decks got covered in stinking mud.
Oh yea, we did coreing also on the oil boats. I had forgotten about
that...<sigh> You had to remind me. <grin> Not one my more pleasent
memories. Guess thats why I had forgotten about it. I will agree.
The mud brought up from the bottom has a smell like nothing else.
Post by Mark Borgerson
On the Navy ships (the round-bottomed DE's in particular, the slime
was generally regurgitated mess deck offerings. ;-)
Been there, done that. And contributed my share. <lol> Different
ships, but all the same.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
Anyway, the point of my post was to make a statement. Feminists have
claimed for years that women were/are kept out of predomanently mens
jobs. And the same with pay scales. Which has been nothing more than
a lie at worst and at best an exageration. Woemn keep themselves out.
In some jobs, such as the Alaskan crab fishery, you have to add
economic conditions that are reducing the opportunities for men and
women alike. Disapearing jobs and quota restrictions mean that if
you weren't doing the job 10 years ago, it's tough to get in now. That
still begs the question why more women weren't in the jobs a decade ago.
The work itself, its hard, and harder years ago. Plus the
superstitions of the industry. Women just didnt go out on the boats
because of that. And likely wouldnt have been wanted.
Though it shouldnt have stopped them if they really wanted to.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
And it has nothing to do with any kind of "role model" of other women
doing the job. It all has to do with their abilities and their
wanting the safer and more comfortable jobs. Nothing wrong with that.
Men arent any different but men WILL do whatever job they can get. The
type of job that men might prefer and the job they actually get and
work can be completely different. I have worked jobs that, while
physically easy, were so stressful that I was more than happy to say
goodbye to them.
Me too. That's why I'm self employed now.
Post by jerkyboy
They were also jobs that few women worked.
I am just tired of women, ie the feminists, whining about they are
being held back and whining that they arent getting paid like guys
when it is just so much bullshit.
Hate to sound too much like Andre, but you should read "Why Men Earn
More" by Warren Farrell.
I have read Farrells work, though not that particular one.
Post by Mark Borgerson
He has a good analysis of the 'earnings gap' He also hypothesizes that
Why Men Earn More pg. 142
"My projection is that by 2020, approximately 70% of dads will have
responsibilities that are significantly divided between work and
home. Making use of the gift of working women, then, involves
treating women as pioneers in helping companies adapt to the divided
responsibilities that will be twenty-first-century reality. It also
involves helping employees understand why someone whith divided
responsibilities cannot be paid as much as someone whose
responsibilities are more fully focused on work."
Though I might disagree somewhat with that short paragraph, he is
right about getting those with split resonsiblities understanding why
they dont make as much. That is part of the problem today with women.
They think they should have it all, plus the higher pay even if they
split time between home and job. It doesnt work that way, but they
and the feminists dont see it.

Enjoyed our talk. this time. <grin> We have discussed other issues
in the past and parted company disagreeing. But I enjoy the
discussions regardless. Will check out your photo's.. Likely bring
back some other memories. I miss my time on the ships. I farm now
and am about as far from the oceans as you can get. And as far from
people as I can get and still do what I do. I like the isolation.
The quiet, or as quiet as you can get anymore with all the jets
overhead. Even here, as far from a city as I can get you still hear
the faint rumble overhead on quiet nights. Especially the military
jets when they happen to kick in their afterburners. But we are
happy here. I love the life though I do mish the ocean.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Mark Borgerson
Mark Borgerson
2006-03-30 02:42:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by jerkyboy
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:04:11 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 18:56:50 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by jerkyboy
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:39:52 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
It's when you consider the jobs just below the "toughest" that you
can make more valid comparisons between the interests of men and
women. Construction work is a good example. A lot of construction
work is within the capability of women (particularly jobs involving
powered equipment operation). They just don't seem interested.
BINGO
Its like a lot of male-dominated work areas. Theres no precedent for women,
no role models, so, no women go into that line of work. The fact that these
endeavors often require significant body strength further reduces the
appeal for women. Its not that they CANT do it or they are disallowed. Its
that they dont want to.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Perhaps it boils down to a bodily strength issue. I mean, you cant change
the requirements for an alaska crab fisher-person. That ocean doesnt care
what sex you are.
I suspect that is the case for the crab fishery. Handling those traps
under the sea conditions prevalent in the Bering sea requires upper
body strength that only a VERY small percentage of women would have.
Exactly. that, and the fact that there are no women doing it now, will
ensure that are no women doing it, for a good long time.
According to a writer from Oregon who spent several seasons in the
crab fishery, There was one woman among the crews on the various
boats. Apparently that wasn't enough to start a flood of women
volunteers.
In any case any newcomer to crab fishing is going to have a hard time
getting a job. There are more experienced deckhands than jobs at this
point.
http://www.cvtips.com/king_crab_industry_employment.html
I am curious, did you even read much of this site? If you actually
did, then that would not be the conclusion. Actually, it would apply
just to a greenhorn position on the crabber, while there are many
other fishing jobs available such as in processing and salmon fishing.
All of which pay good money. And few women that work in any of them
in comparison to the numbers of men.
Yes, I read the site. And, like you say, it is difficult for a
newcomer to get a job in the crab fishing industry. Even those with
several years experience on salmon boats would find it difficult
to get in now.
Depends on how anxious they would be. It is possible to purchase and
outfit your own boat. And if feminists wanted to prove a point, they
could do so quite easily. Hire a captain, and make the rest of the
crew women.
Can't do that easily. The government is imposing quotas and actually
buying back crab boats to reduce the number of boats in the fishery. A
newcomer would have to buy an existing boat---and the current owners
Then do it in one of the other fisheries. But even there you dont see
it. Regardless of your other post talking about women skippers, they
jost dont exist, at least much in numbers.
I think there are some in other fisheries. Even in those, consolidation
and quotas are likely to limit the number of new entrants---men or
women. I guess that most men and women with the capital to get into
the fishing business (probably a minimum of $300,000) are finding
better investments. That means most jobs are controlled by families
or companies with a few decades experience---who have lots of
experienced men from whom to choose.
Post by jerkyboy
Post by Mark Borgerson
"To be implemented in 2005, the quota system was, in part, designed to
make the industry safer. It likely also will result in fewer boats
fishing, as quotas get leased, bought and sold, consolidating the
industry."
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/179623_crab26.html?source=rss
<<SNIP>>

Mark Borgerson
Dave_Symnpathy
2006-03-28 15:54:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by jerkyboy
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:39:52 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
It's when you consider the jobs just below the "toughest" that you
can make more valid comparisons between the interests of men and
women. Construction work is a good example. A lot of construction
work is within the capability of women (particularly jobs involving
powered equipment operation). They just don't seem interested.
BINGO
Its like a lot of male-dominated work areas. Theres no precedent for women,
no role models, so, no women go into that line of work. The fact that these
endeavors often require significant body strength further reduces the
appeal for women. Its not that they CANT do it or they are disallowed. Its
that they dont want to.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Perhaps it boils down to a bodily strength issue. I mean, you cant change
the requirements for an alaska crab fisher-person. That ocean doesnt care
what sex you are.
I suspect that is the case for the crab fishery. Handling those traps
under the sea conditions prevalent in the Bering sea requires upper
body strength that only a VERY small percentage of women would have.
Exactly. that, and the fact that there are no women doing it now, will
ensure that are no women doing it, for a good long time.
According to a writer from Oregon who spent several seasons in the
crab fishery, There was one woman among the crews on the various
boats. Apparently that wasn't enough to start a flood of women
volunteers.
In any case any newcomer to crab fishing is going to have a hard time
getting a job. There are more experienced deckhands than jobs at this
point.
http://www.cvtips.com/king_crab_industry_employment.html
I am curious, did you even read much of this site? If you actually
did, then that would not be the conclusion. Actually, it would apply
just to a greenhorn position on the crabber, while there are many
other fishing jobs available such as in processing and salmon fishing.
All of which pay good money. And few women that work in any of them
in comparison to the numbers of men.
We've already established why that is, have we not? These jobs dont appeal
to many people, male or female. Less to females than to males obviously,
but when you are describing a job that nobody really wants, why use it as
an example to prove women "cant" do it?
jerkyboy
2006-03-30 13:58:23 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:54:16 -0500, Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by jerkyboy
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:39:52 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
It's when you consider the jobs just below the "toughest" that you
can make more valid comparisons between the interests of men and
women. Construction work is a good example. A lot of construction
work is within the capability of women (particularly jobs involving
powered equipment operation). They just don't seem interested.
BINGO
Its like a lot of male-dominated work areas. Theres no precedent for women,
no role models, so, no women go into that line of work. The fact that these
endeavors often require significant body strength further reduces the
appeal for women. Its not that they CANT do it or they are disallowed. Its
that they dont want to.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Perhaps it boils down to a bodily strength issue. I mean, you cant change
the requirements for an alaska crab fisher-person. That ocean doesnt care
what sex you are.
I suspect that is the case for the crab fishery. Handling those traps
under the sea conditions prevalent in the Bering sea requires upper
body strength that only a VERY small percentage of women would have.
Exactly. that, and the fact that there are no women doing it now, will
ensure that are no women doing it, for a good long time.
According to a writer from Oregon who spent several seasons in the
crab fishery, There was one woman among the crews on the various
boats. Apparently that wasn't enough to start a flood of women
volunteers.
In any case any newcomer to crab fishing is going to have a hard time
getting a job. There are more experienced deckhands than jobs at this
point.
http://www.cvtips.com/king_crab_industry_employment.html
I am curious, did you even read much of this site? If you actually
did, then that would not be the conclusion. Actually, it would apply
just to a greenhorn position on the crabber, while there are many
other fishing jobs available such as in processing and salmon fishing.
All of which pay good money. And few women that work in any of them
in comparison to the numbers of men.
We've already established why that is, have we not? These jobs dont appeal
to many people, male or female. Less to females than to males obviously,
WHO has established that? You? You hardly count. Far more
applicants than jobs every year. So anything else to spew from your
female appologist mouth, asshole?
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
but when you are describing a job that nobody really wants, why use it as
an example to prove women "cant" do it?
You are the only one claiming that they are jobs that no one really
wants. Proof offered? None! But what we have established is that
you are nothing more than likely another women, a feminist and nothing
more than a female appologist.
Andre Lieven
2006-03-30 16:27:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by jerkyboy
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:54:16 -0500, Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by jerkyboy
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:39:52 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
It's when you consider the jobs just below the "toughest" that you
can make more valid comparisons between the interests of men and
women. Construction work is a good example. A lot of construction
work is within the capability of women (particularly jobs involving
powered equipment operation). They just don't seem interested.
BINGO
Its like a lot of male-dominated work areas. Theres no precedent for women,
no role models, so, no women go into that line of work. The fact that these
endeavors often require significant body strength further reduces the
appeal for women. Its not that they CANT do it or they are disallowed. Its
that they dont want to.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Perhaps it boils down to a bodily strength issue. I mean, you cant change
the requirements for an alaska crab fisher-person. That ocean doesnt care
what sex you are.
I suspect that is the case for the crab fishery. Handling those traps
under the sea conditions prevalent in the Bering sea requires upper
body strength that only a VERY small percentage of women would have.
Exactly. that, and the fact that there are no women doing it now, will
ensure that are no women doing it, for a good long time.
According to a writer from Oregon who spent several seasons in the
crab fishery, There was one woman among the crews on the various
boats. Apparently that wasn't enough to start a flood of women
volunteers.
In any case any newcomer to crab fishing is going to have a hard time
getting a job. There are more experienced deckhands than jobs at this
point.
http://www.cvtips.com/king_crab_industry_employment.html
I am curious, did you even read much of this site? If you actually
did, then that would not be the conclusion. Actually, it would apply
just to a greenhorn position on the crabber, while there are many
other fishing jobs available such as in processing and salmon fishing.
All of which pay good money. And few women that work in any of them
in comparison to the numbers of men.
We've already established why that is, have we not? These jobs dont appeal
to many people, male or female. Less to females than to males obviously,
WHO has established that? You? You hardly count. Far more
applicants than jobs every year. So anything else to spew from your
female appologist mouth, asshole?
Agreed.
Post by jerkyboy
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
but when you are describing a job that nobody really wants, why use it as
an example to prove women "cant" do it?
You are the only one claiming that they are jobs that no one really
wants. Proof offered? None! But what we have established is that
you are nothing more than likely another women, a feminist and nothing
more than a female appologist.
And, thats already been proven by SympathySexist's misandristic
claim that men should be held responsible for the children that
women alone choose to birth.

So, the fact that SympathySexist IS a man hater is well proven.

Andre
Dave_Symnpathy
2006-03-30 18:12:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andre Lieven
And, thats already been proven by SympathySexist's misandristic
claim that men should be held responsible for the children that
women alone choose to birth.
So, the fact that SympathySexist IS a man hater is well proven.
Thats the funniest thing I've read all week.

You're drooling Andre, here's a napkin.

Parg thinks I'm Dave Sim. You dumbfux are like clones, bookends of
hilarious stupidity.
Andre Lieven
2006-03-30 19:22:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Andre Lieven
And, thats already been proven by SympathySexist's misandristic
claim that men should be held responsible for the children that
women alone choose to birth.
So, the fact that SympathySexist IS a man hater is well proven.
Thats the funniest thing I've read all week.
Well, its not likely you'll find anything funny in your toilet...
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
You're drooling Andre, here's a napkin.
<Massive Projection>
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Parg thinks
No proof offered ? Claim fails.
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
I'm Dave Sim.
Not likely; Mr. Sim writes well. That rules you out.
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
You dumbfux are like clones, bookends of hilarious stupidity.
<shrug> Views of trolls don't interest me at all; I'm just enjoying
pointing out YOUR misandrous sexism.

Andre
Dave_Symnpathy
2006-03-30 19:56:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andre Lieven
Well, its not likely you'll find anything funny in your toilet...
I dont make massive projections into my toilet like you do.

then you turn around and inspect it for length and girth.
Post by Andre Lieven
<shrug> Views of trolls don't interest me at all;
I see. So, earlier you claim I cannot stay on topic and can only post
insults, which according to many people on various forums, is the very
definition of a troll. You keep responding to me, therefore, you are saying
I'm not a troll? Or if I am a troll, why are you responding to that which
you are not interested in?
Post by Andre Lieven
I'm just enjoying
pointing out YOUR misandrous sexism.
As if I really give a massive projection about what a freak like you thinks
is sexist.

Dave_Symnpathy
2006-03-30 17:30:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by jerkyboy
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:54:16 -0500, Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by jerkyboy
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:39:52 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
It's when you consider the jobs just below the "toughest" that you
can make more valid comparisons between the interests of men and
women. Construction work is a good example. A lot of construction
work is within the capability of women (particularly jobs involving
powered equipment operation). They just don't seem interested.
BINGO
Its like a lot of male-dominated work areas. Theres no precedent for women,
no role models, so, no women go into that line of work. The fact that these
endeavors often require significant body strength further reduces the
appeal for women. Its not that they CANT do it or they are disallowed. Its
that they dont want to.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Perhaps it boils down to a bodily strength issue. I mean, you cant change
the requirements for an alaska crab fisher-person. That ocean doesnt care
what sex you are.
I suspect that is the case for the crab fishery. Handling those traps
under the sea conditions prevalent in the Bering sea requires upper
body strength that only a VERY small percentage of women would have.
Exactly. that, and the fact that there are no women doing it now, will
ensure that are no women doing it, for a good long time.
According to a writer from Oregon who spent several seasons in the
crab fishery, There was one woman among the crews on the various
boats. Apparently that wasn't enough to start a flood of women
volunteers.
In any case any newcomer to crab fishing is going to have a hard time
getting a job. There are more experienced deckhands than jobs at this
point.
http://www.cvtips.com/king_crab_industry_employment.html
I am curious, did you even read much of this site? If you actually
did, then that would not be the conclusion. Actually, it would apply
just to a greenhorn position on the crabber, while there are many
other fishing jobs available such as in processing and salmon fishing.
All of which pay good money. And few women that work in any of them
in comparison to the numbers of men.
We've already established why that is, have we not? These jobs dont appeal
to many people, male or female. Less to females than to males obviously,
WHO has established that? You? You hardly count. Far more
applicants than jobs every year. So anything else to spew from your
female appologist mouth, asshole?
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
but when you are describing a job that nobody really wants, why use it as
an example to prove women "cant" do it?
You are the only one claiming that they are jobs that no one really
wants. Proof offered? None! But what we have established is that
you are nothing more than likely another women, a feminist and nothing
more than a female appologist.
You havent established anything except an insane rambling hatred of women.
Further exemplified by your assertion that anyone who disagrees or objects
to your negative stereotyping of women, has to be a woman.
jerkyboy
2006-03-30 18:27:47 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:30:21 -0500, Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by jerkyboy
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:54:16 -0500, Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by jerkyboy
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:39:52 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
It's when you consider the jobs just below the "toughest" that you
can make more valid comparisons between the interests of men and
women. Construction work is a good example. A lot of construction
work is within the capability of women (particularly jobs involving
powered equipment operation). They just don't seem interested.
BINGO
Its like a lot of male-dominated work areas. Theres no precedent for women,
no role models, so, no women go into that line of work. The fact that these
endeavors often require significant body strength further reduces the
appeal for women. Its not that they CANT do it or they are disallowed. Its
that they dont want to.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Perhaps it boils down to a bodily strength issue. I mean, you cant change
the requirements for an alaska crab fisher-person. That ocean doesnt care
what sex you are.
I suspect that is the case for the crab fishery. Handling those traps
under the sea conditions prevalent in the Bering sea requires upper
body strength that only a VERY small percentage of women would have.
Exactly. that, and the fact that there are no women doing it now, will
ensure that are no women doing it, for a good long time.
According to a writer from Oregon who spent several seasons in the
crab fishery, There was one woman among the crews on the various
boats. Apparently that wasn't enough to start a flood of women
volunteers.
In any case any newcomer to crab fishing is going to have a hard time
getting a job. There are more experienced deckhands than jobs at this
point.
http://www.cvtips.com/king_crab_industry_employment.html
I am curious, did you even read much of this site? If you actually
did, then that would not be the conclusion. Actually, it would apply
just to a greenhorn position on the crabber, while there are many
other fishing jobs available such as in processing and salmon fishing.
All of which pay good money. And few women that work in any of them
in comparison to the numbers of men.
We've already established why that is, have we not? These jobs dont appeal
to many people, male or female. Less to females than to males obviously,
WHO has established that? You? You hardly count. Far more
applicants than jobs every year. So anything else to spew from your
female appologist mouth, asshole?
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
but when you are describing a job that nobody really wants, why use it as
an example to prove women "cant" do it?
You are the only one claiming that they are jobs that no one really
wants. Proof offered? None! But what we have established is that
you are nothing more than likely another women, a feminist and nothing
more than a female appologist.
You havent established anything except an insane rambling hatred of women.
Further exemplified by your assertion that anyone who disagrees or objects
to your negative stereotyping of women, has to be a woman.
And just about every word of the above paragraph comes out of the NOW
playbook. BUSTED!!
Dave_Symnpathy
2006-03-30 19:14:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by jerkyboy
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:30:21 -0500, Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by jerkyboy
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:54:16 -0500, Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by jerkyboy
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:39:52 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
It's when you consider the jobs just below the "toughest" that you
can make more valid comparisons between the interests of men and
women. Construction work is a good example. A lot of construction
work is within the capability of women (particularly jobs involving
powered equipment operation). They just don't seem interested.
BINGO
Its like a lot of male-dominated work areas. Theres no precedent for women,
no role models, so, no women go into that line of work. The fact that these
endeavors often require significant body strength further reduces the
appeal for women. Its not that they CANT do it or they are disallowed. Its
that they dont want to.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Perhaps it boils down to a bodily strength issue. I mean, you cant change
the requirements for an alaska crab fisher-person. That ocean doesnt care
what sex you are.
I suspect that is the case for the crab fishery. Handling those traps
under the sea conditions prevalent in the Bering sea requires upper
body strength that only a VERY small percentage of women would have.
Exactly. that, and the fact that there are no women doing it now, will
ensure that are no women doing it, for a good long time.
According to a writer from Oregon who spent several seasons in the
crab fishery, There was one woman among the crews on the various
boats. Apparently that wasn't enough to start a flood of women
volunteers.
In any case any newcomer to crab fishing is going to have a hard time
getting a job. There are more experienced deckhands than jobs at this
point.
http://www.cvtips.com/king_crab_industry_employment.html
I am curious, did you even read much of this site? If you actually
did, then that would not be the conclusion. Actually, it would apply
just to a greenhorn position on the crabber, while there are many
other fishing jobs available such as in processing and salmon fishing.
All of which pay good money. And few women that work in any of them
in comparison to the numbers of men.
We've already established why that is, have we not? These jobs dont appeal
to many people, male or female. Less to females than to males obviously,
WHO has established that? You? You hardly count. Far more
applicants than jobs every year. So anything else to spew from your
female appologist mouth, asshole?
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
but when you are describing a job that nobody really wants, why use it as
an example to prove women "cant" do it?
You are the only one claiming that they are jobs that no one really
wants. Proof offered? None! But what we have established is that
you are nothing more than likely another women, a feminist and nothing
more than a female appologist.
You havent established anything except an insane rambling hatred of women.
Further exemplified by your assertion that anyone who disagrees or objects
to your negative stereotyping of women, has to be a woman.
And just about every word of the above paragraph comes out of the NOW
playbook. BUSTED!!
I've never read it or seen it. You havent busted a thing except maybe your
own testicles on the desktop.
Andre Lieven
2006-03-30 19:23:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by jerkyboy
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:30:21 -0500, Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by jerkyboy
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:54:16 -0500, Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by jerkyboy
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:39:52 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
It's when you consider the jobs just below the "toughest" that you
can make more valid comparisons between the interests of men and
women. Construction work is a good example. A lot of construction
work is within the capability of women (particularly jobs involving
powered equipment operation). They just don't seem interested.
BINGO
Its like a lot of male-dominated work areas. Theres no precedent for women,
no role models, so, no women go into that line of work. The fact that these
endeavors often require significant body strength further reduces the
appeal for women. Its not that they CANT do it or they are disallowed. Its
that they dont want to.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Perhaps it boils down to a bodily strength issue. I mean, you cant change
the requirements for an alaska crab fisher-person. That ocean doesnt care
what sex you are.
I suspect that is the case for the crab fishery. Handling those traps
under the sea conditions prevalent in the Bering sea requires upper
body strength that only a VERY small percentage of women would have.
Exactly. that, and the fact that there are no women doing it now, will
ensure that are no women doing it, for a good long time.
According to a writer from Oregon who spent several seasons in the
crab fishery, There was one woman among the crews on the various
boats. Apparently that wasn't enough to start a flood of women
volunteers.
In any case any newcomer to crab fishing is going to have a hard time
getting a job. There are more experienced deckhands than jobs at this
point.
http://www.cvtips.com/king_crab_industry_employment.html
I am curious, did you even read much of this site? If you actually
did, then that would not be the conclusion. Actually, it would apply
just to a greenhorn position on the crabber, while there are many
other fishing jobs available such as in processing and salmon fishing.
All of which pay good money. And few women that work in any of them
in comparison to the numbers of men.
We've already established why that is, have we not? These jobs dont appeal
to many people, male or female. Less to females than to males obviously,
WHO has established that? You? You hardly count. Far more
applicants than jobs every year. So anything else to spew from your
female appologist mouth, asshole?
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
but when you are describing a job that nobody really wants, why use it as
an example to prove women "cant" do it?
You are the only one claiming that they are jobs that no one really
wants. Proof offered? None! But what we have established is that
you are nothing more than likely another women, a feminist and nothing
more than a female appologist.
You havent established anything except an insane rambling hatred of women.
Further exemplified by your assertion that anyone who disagrees or objects
to your negative stereotyping of women, has to be a woman.
And just about every word of the above paragraph comes out of the NOW
playbook. BUSTED!!
Indeed. Hes proving his misandrous sexism more and more.

Its nice when the man haters make it *that* easy. <g>

Andre
jerkyboy
2006-03-30 18:35:46 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:30:21 -0500, Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by jerkyboy
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:54:16 -0500, Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by jerkyboy
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:39:52 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
It's when you consider the jobs just below the "toughest" that you
can make more valid comparisons between the interests of men and
women. Construction work is a good example. A lot of construction
work is within the capability of women (particularly jobs involving
powered equipment operation). They just don't seem interested.
BINGO
Its like a lot of male-dominated work areas. Theres no precedent for women,
no role models, so, no women go into that line of work. The fact that these
endeavors often require significant body strength further reduces the
appeal for women. Its not that they CANT do it or they are disallowed. Its
that they dont want to.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Perhaps it boils down to a bodily strength issue. I mean, you cant change
the requirements for an alaska crab fisher-person. That ocean doesnt care
what sex you are.
I suspect that is the case for the crab fishery. Handling those traps
under the sea conditions prevalent in the Bering sea requires upper
body strength that only a VERY small percentage of women would have.
Exactly. that, and the fact that there are no women doing it now, will
ensure that are no women doing it, for a good long time.
According to a writer from Oregon who spent several seasons in the
crab fishery, There was one woman among the crews on the various
boats. Apparently that wasn't enough to start a flood of women
volunteers.
In any case any newcomer to crab fishing is going to have a hard time
getting a job. There are more experienced deckhands than jobs at this
point.
http://www.cvtips.com/king_crab_industry_employment.html
I am curious, did you even read much of this site? If you actually
did, then that would not be the conclusion. Actually, it would apply
just to a greenhorn position on the crabber, while there are many
other fishing jobs available such as in processing and salmon fishing.
All of which pay good money. And few women that work in any of them
in comparison to the numbers of men.
We've already established why that is, have we not? These jobs dont appeal
to many people, male or female. Less to females than to males obviously,
WHO has established that? You? You hardly count. Far more
applicants than jobs every year. So anything else to spew from your
female appologist mouth, asshole?
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
but when you are describing a job that nobody really wants, why use it as
an example to prove women "cant" do it?
You are the only one claiming that they are jobs that no one really
wants. Proof offered? None! But what we have established is that
you are nothing more than likely another women, a feminist and nothing
more than a female appologist.
You havent established anything except an insane rambling hatred of women.
Further exemplified by your assertion that anyone who disagrees or objects
Ummm, just so you know, Mark and I are hardly in agreement on many
things, but I dont name him asshole. You I do. For the same reasons
that I have already stated. Most I enjoy my conversations with Mark,
if we agree or not.
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
to your negative stereotyping of women, has to be a woman.
You are nothing more than just a female apologist or a woman
pretending to be a man, definately a feminist though. Words have
meaning and so do their arrangement and the pictures they form. Your
words paint exactly who and what you are. Go back and join the
femiwitches at your local NOW gang and moan together some more.
Feminism is gasping its last breath. Let it breath no more.
Dave_Symnpathy
2006-03-30 19:19:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by jerkyboy
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:30:21 -0500, Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by jerkyboy
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:54:16 -0500, Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by jerkyboy
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:39:52 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
It's when you consider the jobs just below the "toughest" that you
can make more valid comparisons between the interests of men and
women. Construction work is a good example. A lot of construction
work is within the capability of women (particularly jobs involving
powered equipment operation). They just don't seem interested.
BINGO
Its like a lot of male-dominated work areas. Theres no precedent for women,
no role models, so, no women go into that line of work. The fact that these
endeavors often require significant body strength further reduces the
appeal for women. Its not that they CANT do it or they are disallowed. Its
that they dont want to.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Perhaps it boils down to a bodily strength issue. I mean, you cant change
the requirements for an alaska crab fisher-person. That ocean doesnt care
what sex you are.
I suspect that is the case for the crab fishery. Handling those traps
under the sea conditions prevalent in the Bering sea requires upper
body strength that only a VERY small percentage of women would have.
Exactly. that, and the fact that there are no women doing it now, will
ensure that are no women doing it, for a good long time.
According to a writer from Oregon who spent several seasons in the
crab fishery, There was one woman among the crews on the various
boats. Apparently that wasn't enough to start a flood of women
volunteers.
In any case any newcomer to crab fishing is going to have a hard time
getting a job. There are more experienced deckhands than jobs at this
point.
http://www.cvtips.com/king_crab_industry_employment.html
I am curious, did you even read much of this site? If you actually
did, then that would not be the conclusion. Actually, it would apply
just to a greenhorn position on the crabber, while there are many
other fishing jobs available such as in processing and salmon fishing.
All of which pay good money. And few women that work in any of them
in comparison to the numbers of men.
We've already established why that is, have we not? These jobs dont appeal
to many people, male or female. Less to females than to males obviously,
WHO has established that? You? You hardly count. Far more
applicants than jobs every year. So anything else to spew from your
female appologist mouth, asshole?
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
but when you are describing a job that nobody really wants, why use it as
an example to prove women "cant" do it?
You are the only one claiming that they are jobs that no one really
wants. Proof offered? None! But what we have established is that
you are nothing more than likely another women, a feminist and nothing
more than a female appologist.
You havent established anything except an insane rambling hatred of women.
Further exemplified by your assertion that anyone who disagrees or objects
Ummm, just so you know, Mark and I are hardly in agreement on many
things, but I dont name him asshole. You I do. For the same reasons
that I have already stated. Most I enjoy my conversations with Mark,
if we agree or not.
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
to your negative stereotyping of women, has to be a woman.
You are nothing more than just a female apologist or a woman
pretending to be a man, definately a feminist though. Words have
meaning and so do their arrangement and the pictures they form. Your
words paint exactly who and what you are.
Whats hilarious is that in other places, everything I've been saying since
i got here, would label me as misogynyst. Some of you morons are so fuct up
that only HERE could i be called a feminist. Now THATs entertainment.
Mark Borgerson
2006-03-30 18:06:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by jerkyboy
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:54:16 -0500, Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by jerkyboy
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:39:52 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
It's when you consider the jobs just below the "toughest" that you
can make more valid comparisons between the interests of men and
women. Construction work is a good example. A lot of construction
work is within the capability of women (particularly jobs involving
powered equipment operation). They just don't seem interested.
BINGO
Its like a lot of male-dominated work areas. Theres no precedent for women,
no role models, so, no women go into that line of work. The fact that these
endeavors often require significant body strength further reduces the
appeal for women. Its not that they CANT do it or they are disallowed. Its
that they dont want to.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Perhaps it boils down to a bodily strength issue. I mean, you cant change
the requirements for an alaska crab fisher-person. That ocean doesnt care
what sex you are.
I suspect that is the case for the crab fishery. Handling those traps
under the sea conditions prevalent in the Bering sea requires upper
body strength that only a VERY small percentage of women would have.
Exactly. that, and the fact that there are no women doing it now, will
ensure that are no women doing it, for a good long time.
According to a writer from Oregon who spent several seasons in the
crab fishery, There was one woman among the crews on the various
boats. Apparently that wasn't enough to start a flood of women
volunteers.
In any case any newcomer to crab fishing is going to have a hard time
getting a job. There are more experienced deckhands than jobs at this
point.
http://www.cvtips.com/king_crab_industry_employment.html
I am curious, did you even read much of this site? If you actually
did, then that would not be the conclusion. Actually, it would apply
just to a greenhorn position on the crabber, while there are many
other fishing jobs available such as in processing and salmon fishing.
All of which pay good money. And few women that work in any of them
in comparison to the numbers of men.
We've already established why that is, have we not? These jobs dont appeal
to many people, male or female. Less to females than to males obviously,
WHO has established that? You? You hardly count. Far more
applicants than jobs every year. So anything else to spew from your
female appologist mouth, asshole?
jerkyboy has it right. While 99.99% of men and women don't want those
crab fishing jobs, there are still more experienced applicants than
there are jobs. The captains take their pick of the experienced
applicants--which is why it is difficult for a newcomer, man or woman,
to get a deckhand position on a crab boat. Remember, we're talking
about a job that probably has only 200 available positions which last
perhaps 6 weeks each year.
Post by jerkyboy
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
but when you are describing a job that nobody really wants, why use it as
an example to prove women "cant" do it?
You are the only one claiming that they are jobs that no one really
wants. Proof offered? None! But what we have established is that
you are nothing more than likely another women, a feminist and nothing
more than a female appologist.
Not many people want those jobs---but there are less jobs than there
are qualified applicants.


Mark Borgerson
Joe
2006-03-28 10:50:04 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:39:52 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
It's when you consider the jobs just below the "toughest" that you
can make more valid comparisons between the interests of men and
women. Construction work is a good example. A lot of construction
work is within the capability of women (particularly jobs involving
powered equipment operation). They just don't seem interested.
BINGO
Its like a lot of male-dominated work areas. Theres no precedent for women,
no role models, so, no women go into that line of work. The fact that these
endeavors often require significant body strength further reduces the
appeal for women. Its not that they CANT do it or they are disallowed. Its
that they dont want to.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Perhaps it boils down to a bodily strength issue. I mean, you cant change
the requirements for an alaska crab fisher-person. That ocean doesnt care
what sex you are.
I suspect that is the case for the crab fishery. Handling those traps
under the sea conditions prevalent in the Bering sea requires upper
body strength that only a VERY small percentage of women would have.
Exactly. that, and the fact that there are no women doing it now, will
ensure that are no women doing it, for a good long time.
According to a writer from Oregon who spent several seasons in the
crab fishery, There was one woman among the crews on the various
boats. Apparently that wasn't enough to start a flood of women
volunteers.
Of all the posters to soc.men I anticipated, that Mark Borgerson,
would anecdote a woman 'alaskan crabber'. Mark, is great for asking
everyone for 'cites', but doesn't mind positing his own anecdotes to
advance his determined penchant for an opposing argument.
Post by Mark Borgerson
In any case any newcomer to crab fishing is going to have a hard time
getting a job. There are more experienced deckhands than jobs at this
point.
http://www.cvtips.com/king_crab_industry_employment.html
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Unless they could find a way to glamorize it. Make a stupid TV show with
really good looking models doing it and put it on LifeTime. Make it appeal
to the feminists by having the women beat a bunch of sexist men in a
crabbing contest.
Perhaps a reality show: "Survivor Kodiak" ;-)
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
In other fisheries there are a few more women---according to my
wife, who spent a summer in the Alaskan troll salmon fishery.
interesting. what sorts of work did these women do?
Pull fish off the lines, clean fish, bait the lines, shovel
ice in the holds, cook salmon for dinner, etc. I think the
lines are pulled in by hydraulics, so it is mostly just a
matter of handling the fish---which generally don't weigh
more than 30 pounds or so. It requires a lot less upper
body strength than handling a thousand pounds of trap and
crab. Pay is a lot lower than crab fishing, but the work
is easier and less dangerous.
My Grandfather, was a fisherman. My father, was a tuna fisherman, his
entire work life. He worked out of San Diego, on fishing vessels that
spent months at sea searching/fishing for tuna in the Pacific, off of
South America . He was a tuna fisherman, when bamboo poles were used
to hook tuna into the boat while in the midst of a school of tuna.
Tuna weigh hundreds of pounds. That must have been physically
demanding. I'm sure, those who then took the catch and packed them
into ice, also had a very strenuous job. Even the cook, on such a
boat, would have to be strong and had a difficult job.

There was a demand for tuna that necessitated that type of work at
that time. It seems to me, that a woman, would not be well suited in
the above environment. And likely, not be able to do that work as a
vocation.

The methods of catching tuna have changed over the years since, as
have the times. Today, different boats, methods (nets), throw in some
separate quarters, facilites.. who knows?
Post by Mark Borgerson
http://www.cvtips.com/summer_jobs_alaska.html
IIRC my wife got her summer job because the boat owner
was a friend of her dad's. Her family are avid hunters
and fishermen and she was majoring in fisheries science,
so the job was good experience for her.
Mark Borgerson
Mark Borgerson
2006-03-28 18:14:42 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@4ax.com>, ***@invalid.con
says...
Post by jerkyboy
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:39:52 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
It's when you consider the jobs just below the "toughest" that you
can make more valid comparisons between the interests of men and
women. Construction work is a good example. A lot of construction
work is within the capability of women (particularly jobs involving
powered equipment operation). They just don't seem interested.
BINGO
Its like a lot of male-dominated work areas. Theres no precedent for women,
no role models, so, no women go into that line of work. The fact that these
endeavors often require significant body strength further reduces the
appeal for women. Its not that they CANT do it or they are disallowed. Its
that they dont want to.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Perhaps it boils down to a bodily strength issue. I mean, you cant change
the requirements for an alaska crab fisher-person. That ocean doesnt care
what sex you are.
I suspect that is the case for the crab fishery. Handling those traps
under the sea conditions prevalent in the Bering sea requires upper
body strength that only a VERY small percentage of women would have.
Exactly. that, and the fact that there are no women doing it now, will
ensure that are no women doing it, for a good long time.
According to a writer from Oregon who spent several seasons in the
crab fishery, There was one woman among the crews on the various
boats. Apparently that wasn't enough to start a flood of women
volunteers.
Of all the posters to soc.men I anticipated, that Mark Borgerson,
would anecdote a woman 'alaskan crabber'. Mark, is great for asking
everyone for 'cites', but doesn't mind positing his own anecdotes to
advance his determined penchant for an opposing argument.
Oh, it's a bit more than an anecdote. The captain's wife is listed
among the crew aboard the crabber Maverick in the show "The Deadliest
Catch". I remembered her from the show, but hadn't tracked down
the crew list:

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/deadliestcatch/bios/bios.html
Post by jerkyboy
Post by Mark Borgerson
In any case any newcomer to crab fishing is going to have a hard time
getting a job. There are more experienced deckhands than jobs at this
point.
http://www.cvtips.com/king_crab_industry_employment.html
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Unless they could find a way to glamorize it. Make a stupid TV show with
really good looking models doing it and put it on LifeTime. Make it appeal
to the feminists by having the women beat a bunch of sexist men in a
crabbing contest.
Perhaps a reality show: "Survivor Kodiak" ;-)
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
In other fisheries there are a few more women---according to my
wife, who spent a summer in the Alaskan troll salmon fishery.
interesting. what sorts of work did these women do?
Pull fish off the lines, clean fish, bait the lines, shovel
ice in the holds, cook salmon for dinner, etc. I think the
lines are pulled in by hydraulics, so it is mostly just a
matter of handling the fish---which generally don't weigh
more than 30 pounds or so. It requires a lot less upper
body strength than handling a thousand pounds of trap and
crab. Pay is a lot lower than crab fishing, but the work
is easier and less dangerous.
My Grandfather, was a fisherman. My father, was a tuna fisherman, his
entire work life. He worked out of San Diego, on fishing vessels that
spent months at sea searching/fishing for tuna in the Pacific, off of
South America . He was a tuna fisherman, when bamboo poles were used
to hook tuna into the boat while in the midst of a school of tuna.
Tuna weigh hundreds of pounds. That must have been physically
demanding. I'm sure, those who then took the catch and packed them
into ice, also had a very strenuous job. Even the cook, on such a
boat, would have to be strong and had a difficult job.
I suspect the same is true on the crab boats.
Post by jerkyboy
There was a demand for tuna that necessitated that type of work at
that time. It seems to me, that a woman, would not be well suited in
the above environment. And likely, not be able to do that work as a
vocation.
The methods of catching tuna have changed over the years since, as
have the times. Today, different boats, methods (nets), throw in some
separate quarters, facilites.. who knows?
I think a lot (probably most) of the women in the alaskan fisheries
probably work on the factory boats or in processing plants ashore. I
haven't tracked down any statistics yet, though.
Mark Borgerson
Joe
2006-03-28 19:20:37 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:14:42 -0800, Mark Borgerson
<mborgerson.at.comcast.net> wrote:

<snip>
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Joe
Of all the posters to soc.men I anticipated, that Mark Borgerson,
would anecdote a woman 'alaskan crabber'. Mark, is great for asking
everyone for 'cites', but doesn't mind positing his own anecdotes to
advance his determined penchant for an opposing argument.
Oh, it's a bit more than an anecdote. The captain's wife is listed
among the crew aboard the crabber Maverick in the show "The Deadliest
Catch". I remembered her from the show, but hadn't tracked down
http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/deadliestcatch/bios/bios.html
Okay. Then, I took it for granted, you meant a woman that is a
deckhand, handling crabpots, routinely.

Of next to no interest, I spent a short time in Seattle, in '86,
working where large and larger crabpots were made. My part was simply
cutting inner tubes into strips and using them to wrap and cover the
crabpot frames that the welders fashioned and other, much more
important employees, completed. They were good people, there.
My part was strictly minimum wage stuff.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Joe
Post by Mark Borgerson
In any case any newcomer to crab fishing is going to have a hard time
getting a job. There are more experienced deckhands than jobs at this
point.
http://www.cvtips.com/king_crab_industry_employment.html
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Unless they could find a way to glamorize it. Make a stupid TV show with
really good looking models doing it and put it on LifeTime. Make it appeal
to the feminists by having the women beat a bunch of sexist men in a
crabbing contest.
Perhaps a reality show: "Survivor Kodiak" ;-)
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
In other fisheries there are a few more women---according to my
wife, who spent a summer in the Alaskan troll salmon fishery.
interesting. what sorts of work did these women do?
Pull fish off the lines, clean fish, bait the lines, shovel
ice in the holds, cook salmon for dinner, etc. I think the
lines are pulled in by hydraulics, so it is mostly just a
matter of handling the fish---which generally don't weigh
more than 30 pounds or so. It requires a lot less upper
body strength than handling a thousand pounds of trap and
crab. Pay is a lot lower than crab fishing, but the work
is easier and less dangerous.
My Grandfather, was a fisherman. My father, was a tuna fisherman, his
entire work life. He worked out of San Diego, on fishing vessels that
spent months at sea searching/fishing for tuna in the Pacific, off of
South America . He was a tuna fisherman, when bamboo poles were used
to hook tuna into the boat while in the midst of a school of tuna.
Tuna weigh hundreds of pounds. That must have been physically
demanding. I'm sure, those who then took the catch and packed them
into ice, also had a very strenuous job. Even the cook, on such a
boat, would have to be strong and had a difficult job.
I suspect the same is true on the crab boats.
By "bamboo poles", I meant bamboo _fishing_ poles with fishing hooks
on the end. Used as such, to snag tuna and flip up and overhead,
onboard.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Joe
There was a demand for tuna that necessitated that type of work at
that time. It seems to me, that a woman, would not be well suited in
the above environment. And likely, not be able to do that work as a
vocation.
The methods of catching tuna have changed over the years since, as
have the times. Today, different boats, methods (nets), throw in some
separate quarters, facilites.. who knows?
I think a lot (probably most) of the women in the alaskan fisheries
probably work on the factory boats or in processing plants ashore. I
haven't tracked down any statistics yet, though.
Mark Borgerson
If I remember correctly, on the big processing fishing ships, it's not
uncommon for men and women to work cleaning fish on a conveyer belt.
I've heard it is cold grueling work, standing in water, in rough seas,
with six hours on, six hours off shifts, around the clock. Eating and
sleeping is done within those six hours off. Also, during a stint at
sea, employees may at times get to Dutch Harbor, and have a _bit_ of
respite. At the end of several months, a nice paycheck is waiting at
the end.
Mark Borgerson
2006-03-28 19:36:16 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@4ax.com>, ***@invalid.con
says...
Post by Joe
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:14:42 -0800, Mark Borgerson
<snip>
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Joe
Of all the posters to soc.men I anticipated, that Mark Borgerson,
would anecdote a woman 'alaskan crabber'. Mark, is great for asking
everyone for 'cites', but doesn't mind positing his own anecdotes to
advance his determined penchant for an opposing argument.
Oh, it's a bit more than an anecdote. The captain's wife is listed
among the crew aboard the crabber Maverick in the show "The Deadliest
Catch". I remembered her from the show, but hadn't tracked down
http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/deadliestcatch/bios/bios.html
Okay. Then, I took it for granted, you meant a woman that is a
deckhand, handling crabpots, routinely.
OK. I would assume that women who work in the crab fishery start
as cooks or skippers simply because of the reduced upper body strength
requirements. They share the same rough seas and risk of icing,
capsizing and sinking. They (men and women skippers and cooks) probably
don't do the same amount of heavy lifting or face the same risk of
being washed overboard. In general cooks and skippers probably get
less sleep, though. I suspect that by the end of a week-long season,
all the crew is short on sleep, though.
Post by Joe
Of next to no interest, I spent a short time in Seattle, in '86,
working where large and larger crabpots were made. My part was simply
cutting inner tubes into strips and using them to wrap and cover the
crabpot frames that the welders fashioned and other, much more
important employees, completed. They were good people, there.
My part was strictly minimum wage stuff.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Joe
Post by Mark Borgerson
In any case any newcomer to crab fishing is going to have a hard time
getting a job. There are more experienced deckhands than jobs at this
point.
http://www.cvtips.com/king_crab_industry_employment.html
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Unless they could find a way to glamorize it. Make a stupid TV show with
really good looking models doing it and put it on LifeTime. Make it appeal
to the feminists by having the women beat a bunch of sexist men in a
crabbing contest.
Perhaps a reality show: "Survivor Kodiak" ;-)
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
In other fisheries there are a few more women---according to my
wife, who spent a summer in the Alaskan troll salmon fishery.
interesting. what sorts of work did these women do?
Pull fish off the lines, clean fish, bait the lines, shovel
ice in the holds, cook salmon for dinner, etc. I think the
lines are pulled in by hydraulics, so it is mostly just a
matter of handling the fish---which generally don't weigh
more than 30 pounds or so. It requires a lot less upper
body strength than handling a thousand pounds of trap and
crab. Pay is a lot lower than crab fishing, but the work
is easier and less dangerous.
My Grandfather, was a fisherman. My father, was a tuna fisherman, his
entire work life. He worked out of San Diego, on fishing vessels that
spent months at sea searching/fishing for tuna in the Pacific, off of
South America . He was a tuna fisherman, when bamboo poles were used
to hook tuna into the boat while in the midst of a school of tuna.
Tuna weigh hundreds of pounds. That must have been physically
demanding. I'm sure, those who then took the catch and packed them
into ice, also had a very strenuous job. Even the cook, on such a
boat, would have to be strong and had a difficult job.
I suspect the same is true on the crab boats.
By "bamboo poles", I meant bamboo _fishing_ poles with fishing hooks
on the end. Used as such, to snag tuna and flip up and overhead,
onboard.
I've seen films of that catching method. Definitely requires strong
back and shoulders!
Post by Joe
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Joe
There was a demand for tuna that necessitated that type of work at
that time. It seems to me, that a woman, would not be well suited in
the above environment. And likely, not be able to do that work as a
vocation.
The methods of catching tuna have changed over the years since, as
have the times. Today, different boats, methods (nets), throw in some
separate quarters, facilites.. who knows?
I think a lot (probably most) of the women in the alaskan fisheries
probably work on the factory boats or in processing plants ashore. I
haven't tracked down any statistics yet, though.
Mark Borgerson
If I remember correctly, on the big processing fishing ships, it's not
uncommon for men and women to work cleaning fish on a conveyer belt.
I've heard it is cold grueling work, standing in water, in rough seas,
with six hours on, six hours off shifts, around the clock. Eating and
sleeping is done within those six hours off. Also, during a stint at
sea, employees may at times get to Dutch Harbor, and have a _bit_ of
respite. At the end of several months, a nice paycheck is waiting at
the end.
That's the description that I've heard from the accounts of the
international fish monitors that check the catch on some of these
boats. Like a summer on a troll boat, that seems to be a favorite
summer job for students in fishery science.

My only acquaintance with that type of work was a few weeks in a
plywood mill--sweeping up and pulling green chain. While physically
demanding (on the green chain), the reason I quit was that I got
bored out of my skull! I ended up going back to work on a forest
service survey party. Still hard work (as junior man, I carried
the bag, sledge, and pounded stakes), but much less boring.

Mark Borgerson
jerkyboy
2006-03-29 19:25:16 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:36:16 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
says...
Post by Joe
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:14:42 -0800, Mark Borgerson
<snip>
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Joe
Of all the posters to soc.men I anticipated, that Mark Borgerson,
would anecdote a woman 'alaskan crabber'. Mark, is great for asking
everyone for 'cites', but doesn't mind positing his own anecdotes to
advance his determined penchant for an opposing argument.
Oh, it's a bit more than an anecdote. The captain's wife is listed
among the crew aboard the crabber Maverick in the show "The Deadliest
Catch". I remembered her from the show, but hadn't tracked down
http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/deadliestcatch/bios/bios.html
Okay. Then, I took it for granted, you meant a woman that is a
deckhand, handling crabpots, routinely.
OK. I would assume that women who work in the crab fishery start
as cooks or skippers simply because of the reduced upper body strength
requirements. They share the same rough seas and risk of icing,
capsizing and sinking. They (men and women skippers and cooks) probably
I am curious where you are getting the info that there are women
skippers in the crab industry? I mentioned that there was the wife of
the skipper on one of the boats, but I am not aware of any women
skippers themselves. Or are you making an assumption. Yes, they share
the same rough seas and the dangers of the boat capsizing or sinking,
but that is an abstract danger. They arent actually facing those seas
out on the deck along with the other inherent dangers of working on
that deck.

And as for women skippers, you would likely find few men sailors that
would sign with them. Sailors and fishermen are a superstitious lot.
Big on the list are women on the boat regardlous of the circumstances.
Post by Mark Borgerson
don't do the same amount of heavy lifting or face the same risk of
being washed overboard. In general cooks and skippers probably get
less sleep, though. I suspect that by the end of a week-long season,
all the crew is short on sleep, though.
The skippers have to be able to actually pitch in when necessary. And
it does happen. If they physically cant do it, well....again, its
going to be harder to sign a crew.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Joe
Of next to no interest, I spent a short time in Seattle, in '86,
working where large and larger crabpots were made. My part was simply
cutting inner tubes into strips and using them to wrap and cover the
crabpot frames that the welders fashioned and other, much more
important employees, completed. They were good people, there.
My part was strictly minimum wage stuff.
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Joe
Post by Mark Borgerson
In any case any newcomer to crab fishing is going to have a hard time
getting a job. There are more experienced deckhands than jobs at this
point.
http://www.cvtips.com/king_crab_industry_employment.html
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Unless they could find a way to glamorize it. Make a stupid TV show with
really good looking models doing it and put it on LifeTime. Make it appeal
to the feminists by having the women beat a bunch of sexist men in a
crabbing contest.
Perhaps a reality show: "Survivor Kodiak" ;-)
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Mark Borgerson
In other fisheries there are a few more women---according to my
wife, who spent a summer in the Alaskan troll salmon fishery.
interesting. what sorts of work did these women do?
Pull fish off the lines, clean fish, bait the lines, shovel
ice in the holds, cook salmon for dinner, etc. I think the
lines are pulled in by hydraulics, so it is mostly just a
matter of handling the fish---which generally don't weigh
more than 30 pounds or so. It requires a lot less upper
body strength than handling a thousand pounds of trap and
crab. Pay is a lot lower than crab fishing, but the work
is easier and less dangerous.
My Grandfather, was a fisherman. My father, was a tuna fisherman, his
entire work life. He worked out of San Diego, on fishing vessels that
spent months at sea searching/fishing for tuna in the Pacific, off of
South America . He was a tuna fisherman, when bamboo poles were used
to hook tuna into the boat while in the midst of a school of tuna.
Tuna weigh hundreds of pounds. That must have been physically
demanding. I'm sure, those who then took the catch and packed them
into ice, also had a very strenuous job. Even the cook, on such a
boat, would have to be strong and had a difficult job.
I suspect the same is true on the crab boats.
By "bamboo poles", I meant bamboo _fishing_ poles with fishing hooks
on the end. Used as such, to snag tuna and flip up and overhead,
onboard.
I've seen films of that catching method. Definitely requires strong
back and shoulders!
Post by Joe
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Joe
There was a demand for tuna that necessitated that type of work at
that time. It seems to me, that a woman, would not be well suited in
the above environment. And likely, not be able to do that work as a
vocation.
The methods of catching tuna have changed over the years since, as
have the times. Today, different boats, methods (nets), throw in some
separate quarters, facilites.. who knows?
I think a lot (probably most) of the women in the alaskan fisheries
probably work on the factory boats or in processing plants ashore. I
haven't tracked down any statistics yet, though.
Mark Borgerson
If I remember correctly, on the big processing fishing ships, it's not
uncommon for men and women to work cleaning fish on a conveyer belt.
I've heard it is cold grueling work, standing in water, in rough seas,
with six hours on, six hours off shifts, around the clock. Eating and
sleeping is done within those six hours off. Also, during a stint at
sea, employees may at times get to Dutch Harbor, and have a _bit_ of
respite. At the end of several months, a nice paycheck is waiting at
the end.
That's the description that I've heard from the accounts of the
international fish monitors that check the catch on some of these
boats. Like a summer on a troll boat, that seems to be a favorite
summer job for students in fishery science.
Curious about the 6 hour shifts. Doesnt sound like what I have heard.
12 hours on, 12 off is what I have heard. Or in a heavy run, both
shifts on deck, or below. If they have gone to a shorter shift, then
that has to do with there being more women on the factory boats and
the fact that they would not physically be able to work the longer
shift under the conditions that would exist.
Post by Mark Borgerson
My only acquaintance with that type of work was a few weeks in a
plywood mill--sweeping up and pulling green chain. While physically
demanding (on the green chain), the reason I quit was that I got
bored out of my skull! I ended up going back to work on a forest
service survey party. Still hard work (as junior man, I carried
the bag, sledge, and pounded stakes), but much less boring.
Mark Borgerson
Dave_Symnpathy
2006-03-29 20:33:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by jerkyboy
Yes, they share
the same rough seas and the dangers of the boat capsizing or sinking,
but that is an abstract danger.
Said the person who will never have to face that "abstract danger". I bet
twenty minutes at sea in a storm, on one of those boats would turn your
hair white and have you sucking your thumb in the corner.



They arent actually facing those seas
Post by jerkyboy
out on the deck along with the other inherent dangers of working on
that deck.
You arent either are you. So shut the hell up.
jerkyboy
2006-03-30 06:19:05 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:33:29 -0500, Dave_Symnpathy
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
Post by jerkyboy
Yes, they share
the same rough seas and the dangers of the boat capsizing or sinking,
but that is an abstract danger.
Said the person who will never have to face that "abstract danger". I bet
twenty minutes at sea in a storm, on one of those boats would turn your
hair white and have you sucking your thumb in the corner.
I have been on one of those fishing boats. I have been on the deck
and I have faced those seas. So shut up yourself
Post by Dave_Symnpathy
They arent actually facing those seas
Post by jerkyboy
out on the deck along with the other inherent dangers of working on
that deck.
You arent either are you. So shut the hell up.
But I have, so why dont YOU shut the hell up.
Mark Borgerson
2006-03-30 02:38:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by jerkyboy
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:36:16 -0800, Mark Borgerson
Post by Mark Borgerson
says...
Post by Joe
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:14:42 -0800, Mark Borgerson
<snip>
Post by Mark Borgerson
Post by Joe
Of all the posters to soc.men I anticipated, that Mark Borgerson,
would anecdote a woman 'alaskan crabber'. Mark, is great for asking
everyone for 'cites', but doesn't mind positing his own anecdotes to
advance his determined penchant for an opposing argument.
Oh, it's a bit more than an anecdote. The captain's wife is listed
among the crew aboard the crabber Maverick in the show "The Deadliest
Catch". I remembered her from the show, but hadn't tracked down
http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/deadliestcatch/bios/bios.html
Okay. Then, I took it for granted, you meant a woman that is a
deckhand, handling crabpots, routinely.
OK. I would assume that women who work in the crab fishery start
as cooks or skippers simply because of the reduced upper body strength
requirements. They share the same rough seas and risk of icing,
capsizing and sinking. They (men and women skippers and cooks) probably
I stated that poorly. I meant that women who might enter the crabbing
industry would probably have to start either as cooks or skippers,
where the the demands for upper body strength are lower.
Post by jerkyboy
I am curious where you are getting the info that there are women
skippers in the crab industry? I mentioned that there was the wife of
the skipper on one of the boats, but I am not aware of any women
skippers themselves. Or are you making an assumption. Yes, they share
the same rough seas and the dangers of the boat capsizing or sinking,
but that is an abstract danger. They arent actually facing those seas
out on the deck along with the other inherent dangers of working on
that deck.
Some of the stats I've seen show that the deaths from capsizing and
sinking are decreasing--as there are better survival suits and
rafts. While total deaths are decreasing, the proportion due to
loss overboard is probably increasing. Certainly cooks and skippers
are less at risk for those deaths, and for non fatal injuries that
occur on deck.
Post by jerkyboy
And as for women skippers, you would likely find few men sailors that
would sign with them. Sailors and fishermen are a superstitious lot.
Big on the list are women on the boat regardlous of the circumstances.
That didn't seem to be a problem for Linda Greenlaw----skipper of
the swordfishing boat that DIDN'T sink in "The Perfect Storm".
Success and high wages seem able to overcome supersition among
fishermen.
Post by jerkyboy
Post by Mark Borgerson
don't do the same amount of heavy lifting or face the same risk of
being washed overboard. In general cooks and skippers probably get
less sleep, though. I suspect that by the end of a week-long season,
all the crew is short on sleep, though.
The skippers have to be able to actually pitch in when necessary. And
it does happen. If they physically cant do it, well....again, its
going to be harder to sign a crew.
Harder---probably. Impossible---not likely when the alternative is
working in the cannery.
This web site on jobs in Alaska reports that there are a number
of women skippers and deckhands----although the type of boat
is not specified.

http://www.alaskajobfinder.com/jobSeekers/faq/


In one community in Canada (I wasn't able to figure out
where it is located):

"In many of our communities, the fishery is one of the few sources of
employment for women, who make up about 15% of harvesters and about 70%
of crab processing workers."


http://www.ffaw.nf.ca/NewsDetails.asp?id=131





<<SNIP>>


Mark Borgerson
jerkyboy
2006-03-27 22:12:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by jerkyboy
Never tried to claim all men could do it either. Alot of men couldnt,
you are right, but hardly the 90 percent you claim. Now, 90 percent
wouldnt want to do it, yes, because it takes a special kind of guts to
do the job. I didnt go on an Alaskan Crab boat, but I did work a Gulf
coast shrimper and carb boat. Not as challenging as the alaskan boat
but hardly walk in the park either. I also worked my share out on the
rigs and on several oil charting boats. None of them were easy but
the money was good at the time.
So the pay-off is the money.
What eles??? You arent stupid, are you?
Post by s***@yahoo.com
This is a commonly repeated taunt aimed at women on soc.men and I think
it is bullshit.
You are welcome to your opinion. But that is all it is. Just YOUR
opinion. And worth just as much.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
I was an infantryman for 3 years, 1965 - 1968 and I also know that not
many men could do that either.
How about telling that to all the men from this country who served as
infantrymen in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam and the Gulf Wars. MOST men
from 18 to 30 can be trained and handle being an infantryman. Baring
medical issues and in reasonable condition, most men of that age group
can quite easily pass the physical requiremnts to be an infantryman.
Somehow, I doubt your claim, because, if you HAD actually been in the
infantry or the military, you would know that. If you look at records
from the military, only about 10 percent of men cannot pass the
physical requirements. And without GENDER NORMING, few women can pass
them.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
But that doesn't stop the bitter brigade from taunting women with that
either. I venture that none of those bozos served in combat either.
It's just another stupid taunt that makes all of us look bad.
Actually, you are just another woman firster appologist nigt in
shining steel plate looking to save the poor little woman. The only
one who looks bad is you.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by jerkyboy
Oh, and I was/am one of those computer "geeks". I worked those jobs
in the summers and off time from school studying to be a "geek", so to
speak. And if you never met many men who couldnt work the rigs,
your circle of acquaintances must of been pretty small or limited.
Not many of the "gameboy" generation, that's assured. Most of my close
Hehehe, then you dont know anything.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
friends can and have worked those kinds of jobs, but they aren't on
soc.men taunting women.
There is a difference between women and feminists. Of course, you
liberals seem to be unable to tell the difference.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by jerkyboy
So my point still stands. If women claim to be held back, then why
are not they out there in all those dangerous, deadly, high paying
jobs in eequal numbers with the guys. They wouldnt be stopped. They
have to search the world for the guys to work them. Just about all
you have to do is apply. Same with the jobs working at the crab
processing plants up in Alaska. But the hours are long and hard there
as well. And messy, smelly as well as moderately dangerous. And you
would make 25 bucks an hour as well as getting your housing. Yet few
women, if any, work those plants. Men again. Nothing stopping the
gals applying and getting the jobs, for sure. Jobs go unfilled even
at 25 bucks an hour. So where are all these amazon feminists.
I don't understand your point at all or what you're trying to prove. Do
you just dislike women? Nobody forced me to work on oil platforms or as
Nope. But I do hate feminists, who have claimed for years that "women
can do everything men can do plus gestate." as one of our resident
femitwits is whont to say.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
metal worker, no one forced me to join the Army, I volunteered, so what
point are you trying to make?
That is feminists and you liberals want to claim that women are being
kept out of jobs then you better prove it. If you want to claim that
women can do everything that men can do...then prove it. Its that
simple. Its a specious arguement to try to claim that welll, not ALL
men can do ALL jobs. Of course not. But that isnt the point.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Do you want to force people to work jobs that they don't want to do?
Nope....thats up to you feminists and liberals. But if they and you
want to claim that women can do it all, then you better prove it,
without the gender norming and the affirmative discrimination.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
I chose to work outside.
Good for you. So do I, every day of my life. I farm. Which also
happens to be one of the most dangerous jobs. And another one that
few women do on a full time basis.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by jerkyboy
Again, we know where they are. Whining and moaning about the safe
corporate executive jobs that they just cant seem to be given, even
though they whine day and night.
Most of the whining I see in this newsgroup is from men who simply do
not like women and have a personal ax to grind..
Again, you try to equate hatred of feminism with hatred of women.
Stupid.
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by jerkyboy
So again I say, lets go gals. Get together with those feminist deep
pockets and form your own fishing fleet and make the big bucks. Out
of all the women in the US and Canada, surely there are enough women
worthy of such a job. Prove that its not just guy's who can do it.
Back up your claims rather than just whine about it.
I simply don't see the point in a challenge like that. What point are
you trying to make?
Are you just that stupid??
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Sam
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